Raver Ethics & Morals?

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Raver Ethics & Morals?

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February 18, 2005 at 2:55 pm

#687860
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General Lighting

@general-lighting

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I’ve always wondered about these…

Of course you’d expect ravers to have relatively liberal values on the use of recreational drugs, the right to free speech and assembly – in other words a desire for freedom in all its forms..

But what do you think about ethics and morals?

We have all seen many instances where people start out as friends but fall out over drugs/money (people running up stupid debts with no way of paying them and then stuff gets heavy particularly further up the chain)

People who do twoc (car theft) and burglaries to fund their partying or even during/after a party using the event as “cover” – this IMO is inexcusable as it means the cops and locals obviously think we are all thieving scum

Squatters who can’t be fucked to get a job and do the above crimes to get stuff to sell on – many (of course not all) have or had links with the rave scene…

The big issue is we justify this scene by claiming we use these spaces and resources better than just leaving them, and we don’t cause extra burden to society…

Its a grey area – squatting a building for positive purposes is fine, and if a corporate obviously abandons obsolete / decommissioned equipment in a disused building (like its >3 years old and hasn’t been electric safety tested which usually means its been written off the accounts) then I can’t see a problem if this equipment is used elsewhere.. (I don’t even see this as crime, particularly as it now costs money to get rid of e-trash and its better than leaving stuff with toxic components which eventually gets taken apart in 3rd world nations..)

But when partying, rinsing the same building or land many times over is a bit much for the people in the surrounding area – as is wanton destruction of buildings and infrastructure…

And sometimes rather than buying stuff from shops near raves happen kids shoplift everything – of course the business owners then moan to cops..

I reckon most decent people on our scene do have good ethics on the outset, but sometimes I fear that they slip in the desire to party, there is sometimes a culture “yeah a bit of crime is OK as everything else is babylon innit” and that we have sometimes to “check ourselves”…
February 20, 2005 at 11:45 am

#852742
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mry

@mry

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Freedom and society…

My freedom stops where other people’s freedom begin – isn’t that the base of modern society?

The awareness of this constitutes my moral, I suppose.

But sometimes, of course, you’ll have to fight for your freedom or that of others (if you’re into that kind of work).
February 20, 2005 at 3:31 pm

#852741
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globalloon

@globalloon

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i know that when i was a lot younger i used to have good basic morals… i would never intentionally hurt anyone but i was often well outside the law and doing stuff like helping yourself to a few beers and a sandwich from costcutter on sunday morning wasn’t going to make me feel guilty :p

partly cos it was the middle of a recession and it was impossible to make ends meet without a bit of black market profit some free lunch :rolleyes:

and partly cos i was just a bit naughty 😉

and looking back some of my actions would have been detrimental to the good name of my fellow ravers 😮

but i think that having the opportunity to express myself and take part in a semi-anarchic and largely non-judgemental community that i found underground helped me to grow much effectively than any establishment could have 🙂

and now if i’m with someone who is gonna think of doing something like nick a bottle of wine, i’d rather buy it for them

and share it with them and hopefully talk about stuff they want to do instead of drinking stolen wine

yergetme?
February 24, 2005 at 2:26 pm

#852740
6

General Lighting

@general-lighting

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I think there was TBH a culture of crime (mostly twoc, shoplifting, burglary) amongst the early 90s ravers – I was no angel myself, although at that time none of our crew would ever do over houses, there was never much violence involved (bar disputes amongst people who knew one another) and people quit nicking cars when they could afford their own.

There was a fair amount of vandalism (although more on angry comedowns and never at party venues!) though – and we did have associates who would do proper “jobs” (this was in the days when ramraids were easier) but it was even then never on dwellings. Of course this would have affected the businesses who got rinsed, and customers eventually paid for the cost of barrers etc.

You notice I don’t mention drugs at all – I do not think low-level dealing without violence is even a crime!

But there were some darker aspects in the mid 90s, some crews actively used kids who did burglaries (including dwellings) to get equipment or cash, or used their car-theft skills to provide transport (one of the main things that hots up raves)

I think things have got better on the party scene – many now realise (with hindsight) that we are in a huge glass house and cannot break the windows with impunity – and as globaloon said most kids who have done wrong and discover the party scene tend somehow to pick up a better way of life – if only because you can’t rave when you are in HMP!

Also if you organise parties and do other crime you tend to get nicked a bit quicker and get harsher penalties with all the cop databases about these days (obvious really but people seem to think they are untouchable sometimes!)

I’ve known people to do raves for years but who are otherwise clean and they often get left alone unless there is serious damage to an area.

I do think though if you operate outside the “normal societies laws” you need even more ethics, morals and integrity to be a decent person and not just “criminal scum..”
February 24, 2005 at 6:38 pm

#852743
1

mry

@mry

Member
General Lighting wrote:

I do think though if you operate outside the “normal societies laws” you need even more ethics, morals and integrity to be a decent person and not just “criminal scum..”
oh oh, I like systematic reflexions (my systematic high), so:
the center paradise = normativ, social constructed ethics, morals and (integrety (or unison)) (and criminal scum constantly knocking on the door)
and
outside purgatory = individually formed ethics, morals and (integrety (or unity)) (outside and happy, other people see only kaos)

and yes, systems are too systematic, but I like them.
April 13, 2010 at 10:30 am

#852739
[deleted]

@[deleted]

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@mry 8934 wrote:

Freedom and society…

My freedom stops where other people’s freedom begin – isn’t that the base of modern society?

The awareness of this constitutes my moral, I suppose.

But sometimes, of course, you’ll have to fight for your freedom or that of others (if you’re into that kind of work).

Here here!
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