Forums › Life › Spirituality, Morality & Religion › Your views on immigration…
What are your views on immigration in the UK? Personally, I think we’re far too soft. Most countries have a policy in which you can only immigrate to the country if you have skills that are required (for example, a graduate in a needed subject) or if you can take a job that no other British citizen can do. Not in the UK, in the UK, it’s easy to get a work visa. I’ve seen in fast food places, supermarkets, etc, loads of Asian and African immigrants who barely even speak English. They know just enough to do their job. In most countries, for example, France, Germany and other European nations, the citizens wouldn’t and don’t stand-for-it. I’m one who doesn’t stand-for-it either. Also, about 2 years ago, a lot of the Eastern European states joined the European Union. Every single nation in the European Union, but Britian, put a 5 year period on the free movement around the EU policy, basically meaning that citizens of the newly joined EU states can’t work and live in another EU country for 5 years, a sort of “intergration” period.
Not in the UK, in the UK they accepted all the new EU member states straight away. And what do we have? Loads of Polish, Romanian, Estonian, etc, immigrants taking unskilled jobs that British citizens can and WOULD do. And don’t give me this bollocks that the British citizens don’t want the jobs, because I know plenty who would do them, but can’t get them because all the positions are taken by Eastern Europeans.
Our overly liberal immigration policy pisses me off, sometimes I wonder if Tony Blair is being paid by the Russian government to destroy Britian – he certainly seems to be making a good job on it.
I wish we could be more like France and Germany and not have to pussy foot around the immigrations, while they treat us like shit.
But when ever I say all this to BRITISH CITIZENS they insult me and call me racist. It’s like they’re all for this immigration. I blame it on the BBC’s liberal brainwashing.
i hav to agree with u cof, y should we be lettin loads of forign immigrants come into our country. all they do when they get here is set up ther own comunitys and do not associate with the rest of the british population. i am not tryin to be racist but we would b a lot better off with out all the immagrants, if we were like the other countrys in the eu we would not have a problem with umployment. sorry about all the spelling
I disagree. All our lives are a great deal richer for the diversity we have…
I’m don’t mind at all tbh. IMO, what you say about English citizens wanting the ‘unskilled’ jobs is rubbish – if the jobs were so sought after then they wouldn’t have been vacant for the immigrants to take in the first place.
Perhaps is different where you live (I couldn’t see your location on your profile), but certainly where I live you are only unemployed by choice and influx of Polish to my city has filled loads of unskilled jobs and boosting the local economy at the same time.
I also like the introduction of all of the Polish and Carribean and African food shops that have loads of wierd and wonderful things to try. 🙂
Where it may make a difference to English citizens for finding jobs though is in certain industries (building for example) as immigrants can be employed (exploited?) at cheaper rates than their English counterparts.
I’ve also hears of stories where genuine asylum seekers are not allowed to work here because of their political situation, but want to work here….e.g. qualified doctors and other highly qualified professionals – ridiculous.
its a lot more complicated than the simplistic arguments given in the media.
People from different British communities are often never welcome (just think of all the stupid fights between villages that happened(still happen sometimes!) , never mind people other countries! People are only grudingly accepted because of what they can do, not who they are. Hate is never too far away.
Immigrants are let in because they are cheap – and Britain can wrestle away work from the other EU countries who “do not stand for it” and protect their internal job markets from wider market forces.
Shop work has been deskilled by companies so people don’t need to speak so much to customers. Even English people are discouraged from speaking to the customers for too long as it slows down the service.
Immigration in the UK is flawed rather than overly liberal – at the same time as letting in low-skilled workers Britain is actually turning away highly skilled doctors and medical staff; even after training them in the UK at NHS expense, because of quotas on immigration from certain countries. This makes no sense whatsoever.
OTOH Britains economy is built on the strength of earlier immigrants particularly the Asian community. The CEO of Vodafone is from India; the chief Technology Manager of British Telecom is also Asian (may even be British Asian). Many high-tech companies have a significant amount of Asian staff and this has been going on for the last 20 years.
Incidentally I work as a finance manager in a local business in East Anglia. Our vacancies are advertised in local papers and open to all. There is an equal mixture of British and foreign workers amongst the staff and no discrimination is permitted
What has been found is that although both native British (including second-generation British Asians who were born in the UK!) and European immigrants may want the same jobs, often the immigrants do want them more. The crunch comes when the managers want people to work weekends/overtime. Often one person won’t do this; but someone else will.
The people who do the hours get the jobs; simple as that. The first band of immigrants into the UK (Asians in the 1950s onwards) got a foothold in the British economy because they bought up corner shops and opened them later than the supermarkets.
But this TBH is no different from work in the South of England moving to the North and also Scotland because people “need” the jobs more.
BTW in countries with harsher policies like France and Germany unemployment is worse; as other companies do not invest in them due to the higher labour costs and more complicated rules. And what do you mean but “not standing for it.”
Are you prepared to go to war in the streets with the immigrants?
If you go to some parts of Germany and FRance you will see cops everywhere and people with guns because of this. Is this what you want?
Everybody wants cheaper products and faster delivery ; that means driving down costs and using the cheapest resources; at the same time employers still want the “best of the best”. I can understand why there is tension as the youth here are competing with counterparts of their age in Europe; who often have degrees and higher qualifications and are prepared to sacrifice other bits of their lifestyles such as partying.
But at the same time its this “liberalism” which gets you cheap computers and rig equipment, cheap flights and the chance to go to teknivals etc in other countries.
If immigrants all left this country en masse and took their money and skills with them, Britain would collapse within days. We cannot always cherry pick the bits we want from the globalised economy – we must accept all the aspects of it.
Do you two read the sun/star at all? 😉
I wont go in to the larger scale debate of it all but I’ll just mention my personal experiences with foreign workers.
Until recently I worked teaching computer skills to employed/unemployed people of all backgrounds. Another part of the companies services was ESOL (English as a second language for overseas learners)
Well. The majority of people I taught were either elderly people trying to get up to date with modern technology or employed people sent there to gain more skills for their work environment. The other group of people were those who had been “forced” to attend by the job centre. They were usually un-interested and the majority of the time would sign up for a course and never come back.
There were VERY FEW younger to middle aged unemployed people coming in off their own back and actually making a concerted effort to better themselves to help find employment (we didn’t just teach IT skills it included health & safety, customer service, management skills, job search help & CV constructing etc). Strange because it was a free service to anyone receiving benefits.
On the other hand, on the ESOL side of things we had lots and lots of unemployed immigrants wanting to make use of the free training so they could learn English and apply for jobs. During their training they would apply for jobs and many of them would end up working in care homes or cleaning/working in factories which a lot of us brits would deem as unfit jobs.
Many of them would complete their English training and then take national tests designed for British people and would often outperform many English speakers. They would also come over to my half and enrol on to IT courses and would make a big effort to understand what they were being taught. Again, they would often surpass the effort and results put in by others.
After working in jobs that most of us would sneer at (plus working very hard at their studies whilst all the time having very little money and sometimes living in houses with up to 15 others) they would apply for better paid and higher skilled jobs and more often than not they would get them because they have proven how motivated they are and have presented themselves well.
I’m not saying all unemployed Brits are the same, of course not, some are genuinely stuck in a rut and making a big effort to help themselves. BUT from my personal experience in offering FREE training I saw very few of them that weren’t forced to come. It seems like most of us tend to believe we should be handed everything on a plate where as many immigrants tend to realise they have to put the effort in. To be honest I believe that the majority of immigrants are a benefit to our economy.
The only thing I do have a problem with is those that see the UK as an easy ride and come here to sponge off the government and live the life of luxury. However, I don’t think tightening restrictions is the answer (many genuine asylum seekers are sent back to countries where they are in danger already!) I think the system just needs to be re-thought.
Immigration is the net result of colonialism – mainly British – and the exporting of western values post-WWII ; ie, capitalist consumerism. I suppose some people would rather just have ‘foreigners’ sweating their bollocks off in a sweat shop in the far east for a pittance so that they can wear their fucking Nikes. In addition, if you go around the globe starting wars and stirring up shit (Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc, are just the tip of the iceberg), of course people will become displaced.
I would say much more on the subject, but I have a particularly liberal (small ‘l’) dissertation to complete, and I would only repeat what others have already said quite effectively.
COF there’s quite a bit of factual inaccuracy in your post
points like “every other EU country” isn’t right. Both Eire and Sverige have no limitations on the new EU members
why should new EU member states have limitations? proportionally they are paying more into the EU and recieving far less in the way of subsidies etc
And don’t give me this bollocks that the British citizens don’t want the jobs, because I know plenty who would do them, but can’t get them because all the positions are taken by Eastern Europeans.
that doesn’t make sense. why weren’t those jobs already filled by british people when the EU expanded if so many british people were willing to do them?
Britain doesn’t have an overly liberal immigration system. if it did, there wouldn’t illegal immigrants trying to bypass the system
I think the system for dealing with illegal immigrants needs to be faster, fairer and more effective though.. if just to appease the mail reading masses. I couldn’t give two shits if someone comes here illegally, to be honest
well for me, I’m an earthling, and believe in no boarders or boundarys of Man,
we are a nomadic people, live as we should 🙂
i know that it can be unsletting for some people, but i have no problem 🙂
I work with 3 people from the UK..Sure a Dane could do the same job just as well..Have a friend who works in the UK..You could probably find an englishman who could do the job,just as good..In Denmark we need more skilled doctors,but the qualifyed doctors from other contries are cleaning toilets,cant understand that..Im sure they are just as good as the Danish doctors..If im sick i dont care what contry the doctor who can cure me are from..Also think we are bombing their contries,think they got the right to be here..Cant understand your problem..(sorry for the bad spelling)
A few other quick points as I have loads to do.
I suppose no British ever go working in Ibiza, France, wherever, taking all the crap jobs off locals.
Also, has anyone yet mentioned the demographics of a shrinking workbase, and an aging population, in line with most, if not all, Western countries. This requires additional labour if us ‘old fogies’ want to maintain our standards of living.
I also agree about not giving a toss whether people arrive here illegally or not. The government provides for well-off people to come here, like when the lease on Hong Kong ran out, but they don’t give two hoots about the less well-off being left behind.
A hypothetical point to consider. If global warming raises sea levels, etc, and for some reason the country can’t provide for us; are you going to remain in this hypothetically arid, strife-torn, as people struggle over scant resources, poxy little country; or are you going to do all you can to get to some other place where you can ‘sponge off the state’ there, or do some shitty job. In any case, it may not be so hypothetical, because other nations’ economies, like China etc, are in growth, whilst ours, post-WWII, is in relative decline. America owes billions to Japan, too; so even if the ecological disaster never happens to that extent, people may still end up desperate to leave, and find employment in richer nations.
Immigrants were invited here post-WWII to help in the reconstruction of the nation after helping their former (mis)rulers defeat the Axis powers (Germany, Japan, Italy). Continuing on this theme; I presume you don’t want immigrants draining this great, wealthy country of its resources; but this wealth was accumulated through colonialism and slavery, raping their countries, and often literally their women; no wonder they want a slice of our pie.
I’ve already spent too long for today so goodbye for now.
when u put up a thread like this mate, u wanna try and aquaint urself with a few facts.
anyone can start mouthin off about emotive subjects like this, but it pays to do some background.
how many immigrants last year/decade? how many emigrants last year/decade? how many immigrants just come and ‘sign on’ in an average year? how many EU, how many others?etc, etc…
i never see real numbers discussed, when it comes to asylum seekers and immigration… people just need to educate themselves a bit more… then we might have decent discussion.
i agree that Britains imperial plunderin of other nations, gives us a special reason for doing the right thing.
incidently,if u read REAL newspapers (not the bullshit tabloids), u might have read last week, that immigrants from inside the EU have been credited with keepin inflation down, in the UK, since enlargement.
no offence meant… but my grandad was an austrian communist (ie anti-nazi), who fled to the UK in 1938, as a refugee from the nazi’s. He was put in an internment camp in early 1940 (when invasion fears were at thier height), during a tabloid frenzy over ‘fifth columnists’.
churchill ordered the deportation of ‘enemy aliens’ to canada, and my grandad’s ship was sunk in disgraceful circumstances. he died from the effects of being in the icy north atlantic sea, along with apprx 700 other immigrants/asylum seekers. the ship was called the arandora star. this led to the end of churchill’s deportation policy.
u dont know about this, because the british govnt was so ashamed about wot happened, it hushed up the story, which was only possible because of the ‘fog of war’. no book has ever been published in the UK, about these events.
my grandma was even threatened with deportation, if she made a fuss about it.
it makes me wonder wot modern asylum seekers have to suffer, away from public gaze. It is a very vulnerable situation to be in, especially when language is often an issue.
my point is simple, facts first, then discussion! its easy to find info on the net… then come and make ur point:you_crazy :you_crazy :you_crazy
our wealth is based on an illusion of prospeity that causes poverty in much of the rest of the world, which is why people leave and try to come to the wealthy west
take for example the EU common agricultural policy
we (EU & US) pay vast subsidies to cotton and sugar farmers. these ‘farmers’ in vast profit making companies. Tate & Lyle recieved £1.8 billion in EU subsidies last year alone, for refining sugar. The US govt paid $180 billion in subsidies to American intensive farmers in 2005!
these falsely cheap goods (and forget about the environmental costs of intensive farming) are then dumped in the markets of the developing world, making the livlehoods of farmers in developing countries impossible. in the last 3 years around 100,000 Mexican farmers have been driven off their land and denied access to their domestic market by US imports.
this not only has a devastating impact on the individuals and their familes, but entire countries are destabalised as their economies begin to fail
little wonder that people try and enter the US and fortress Europe by whatever means possible, with the hope of being able to provide for their families
people who moan about immigrants ought to think a little more clearly about where their own apparent wealth comes from
im not going into this too much because im a builder and i read the sun and polotics are not my strong point but speaking from personal experiance since all the eastern europians have been coming over fairplay their not on the ponse but as someone has mentioned they are cheap labour and they are under cutting normal trade prices and as a result a lot of companys obviously use them and leave us scratching about for work and our prices are falling rapid.On top of this unless your an extreme case or an imigrant you have no chance of getting a council flat round here and i cant get a mortgage(my fault rinsed the plastic now black listed) so i end up paying someone elses with a load extra for their retirement :laugh_at: thats what he must do every month on rent day,laugh(my landlords an arse).Finally i know its a bit of an exreme example but that hamu hamza(?hook)living over here on benefits for years and preaching all that messed up wrong thinking jahead/holy war stuff:you_crazy WTF.Yes we need imigrants as do most countrys to keep the balance but if we keep on like this its surely not going to be a healthy balance?
chillidog
fair points i reckon
but personally i take the bigger picture.. i can’t bring myself to blame individuals who come here to try and stand a chance of a better life when global politics (like the way the US and EU, IMF and World Bank keep other countries in poverty) makes ‘us’ artificially rich
you and I can’t afford a house in this country. neither can the polish immigrant labourer or philipino nurse. the government and the extremely wealthy Murdoch (who as you know owns The Sun, SKY TV etc) want us looking the other way and blaming the wrong people while they get richer and more powerful
or that’s my view anyway
divide and conquer
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Forums › Life › Spirituality, Morality & Religion › Your views on immigration…
