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Forums Rave Festivals UK FESTIVALS. TURN IT UP!

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  • We the undersigned believe that sound decibel limits at UK festivals have become so restricted in recent years that they are spoiling the enjoyment of these perfectly legal events. We believe a sometimes over-zealous approach to enforcement has had a detrimental effect on overall sound quality as well as volume. Even highly professional major events like the Glastonbury and Reading Festivals have been afflicted by these increasingly draconian restrictions.

    We accept that there needs to be a balance between the legitimate right to enjoy public entertainment and respect for local residents. But we believe the balance has been shifted too far in favour of a very small minority of residents who can affect the enjoyment of hundreds of thousands of festivalgoers. The customers have often paid £100 or more for a ticket and are putting significant revenue into the local economy in addition to being taxpayers and positive contributors to society in general.

    We further believe that these restrictions are unreasonable and are damaging the reputation of UK festivals, causing growing numbers of people to travel abroad (often by air) in search of better sound quality – or attend illegal events in the UK instead.

    We call on the Government, the Health and Safety Executive, local authorities and other interested parties to re-examine this balance and consider whether these events have become over-regulated, especially at a time when people are being encouraged to cut down on holidays abroad in order to reduce their carbon footprint.

    Turn It Up! – a petition on UK festival sound levels

    TBH I doubt a dispersed lobby will have any effect whatsoever.

    For one thing much of this is a operational and commercial decision of the festival organisers, and festival goers would be better off directing their complaints to the individual promoters (in the same way you would complain about a poor retail service elsewhere) so those complaints can be passed on to the local authority.

    It is perfectly possible to get a good quality sound system operating even within the new noise bands of the local authority, I was listening to one just two weeks ago in Lowestoft!

    if their engineers and sound crews are crap, they should be fired and replaced with decent ones. But how many festie “staff” are recruited through nepotism rather than the merit of their work?

    I think the EU has recently increased monitoring and enforcement over noise levels of all industries, but its hardly surprising given that all 25 nations have public funded healthcare and there seems to be a increasing body of evidence from the health service that a whole generation is growing up with serious hearing problems due to overexposure to noise.

    I wonder how many of the people complaining about “poor quality” are doing so not because the rig is that bad but because their hearing is already damaged and the lower levels mean they can’t hear it?

    In the case of Reading, its also overgrown its venue and is simply in the wrong place now, and most of the complaints aren’t over noise but the sheer obstruction and congestion it causes in one part of the region.

    I came extremely close to writing a Formal Objection to their PEL a few years ago! However the festival could easily be shifted to the South of the city near the M4 (where a certain Mr Madjeski has plenty of spare land/resources) and they could turn it up all they wanted 😉

    Also 15-20 years ago it simply wasn’t possible or affordable to get the loudspeakers and amps used in outdoor music events today which can put out far greater sound levels…

    I’ve signed, whether my signature will make a difference or not i don’t know.
    See what happens at the next festival 🙂

    im pretty sure it wont make a difference, but its worth a try. There reducing the size of the festival as well so it shouldnt have that much of an effect on the area. its only a few days out of a year as well, the local residents should lighten up a bit ffs, especially considering the amount glade puts back in to that area. my hearing fine as well and you shouldnt really be able to have a conversation in front of a massive stack of speakers without even having to really raise your voice. The origin stage was banging tho!

    if you know where the next festival is you can find out the local Council’s address and contact their licensing/environmental health department directly

    they are obliged by law to publicly state their the acceptable noise levels in each area (it can vary in “bands” depending how close the venue is to residential areas).

    That said, I don’t even think these have changed all that much in recent years. What may have recently changed is laws about people working in the industry (engineers, DJ’s, stewards) and how much noise they can be exposed to.

    As bizzare as it may seem to punters, It is even possible that people on the crew are responsible for the sound being turned down – workers in this industry have their goodwill of often exploited and in this country “health and safety” regularly used as a “bargaining point” or a way of getting back at the “bosses” rather than to genuinely protect staff and customers.

    TBH I think the only thing what would make a real difference is a drop in attendance and ticket sales at a few festivals and some of them folding (like is already happening). if this starts causing a genuine financial loss to the local economy where the festivals happen(ed), then maybe residents could be encouraged to be more supportive in future…

    djprocess;241828 wrote:
    and you shouldnt really be able to have a conversation in front of a massive stack of speakers without even having to really raise your voice. The origin stage was banging tho!

    Exactly!
    If you’re able to do that then you know it’s not right.
    You want your ears to be ringing!

    djprocess;241828 wrote:
    im pretty sure it wont make a difference, but its worth a try. There reducing the size of the festival as well so it shouldnt have that much of an effect on the area. its only a few days out of a year as well, the local residents should lighten up a bit ffs, especially considering the amount glade puts back in to that area.

    do you have any verifiable numbers for this?

    I would have thought given the location TBH the most revenue would have gone to Membury and Theale motorway services and not much else, festival goers at electronic dance music festivals tend not to spend that much on food 😉

    Unfortunately West Berks is one of the richest areas in the Berks/Oxon/Bucks region (an area I am very familiar with as I spent 20+ years of my life there!) and the richer, older locals could easily say they don’t want or need this “extra” business. I suspect a lot of the other business generated via the festival also results in the money going back to London or other regions such as Reading.

    OTOH a fair few people on here are themselves locals to West Berkshire and >18 years old – they are therefore eligible to pay Council Tax and also to have a say in their local affairs.

    a few of the pubs round the area probably get a bit of extra trade for a few days, but the actual organisers themselves give money from the ticket sales to the local council. not sure how much, but i remember reading it last year when they had all that shit with the license. like your saying tho the residents probably dont get to see much of that extra money as the council probably just hoards it.

    I did a bit of googling and West Berks granted glade a 5 year license with “limited monitoring” (whatever that means) in 2007. However the amount they actually paid for it appears to have been classified as “RESTRICTED-COMMERCIAL”.

    This is unfortunately (in days of otherwise increasingly “open” government) common practice and both the Councils and the promoters collude with this as the promoters don’t want to “help competitors”.

    As a ballpark figure though a normal full PEL in West Berks (for something like a 1500 capacity nightclub) is about £635, whilst in Reading a PEL for an Elton John concert at the Madjeski stadium cost £25 000

    I suspect Glade (capacity 12 000) would be somewhere in the middle of these figures. Also they would have to pay TVP for the Police costs..

    However, even £10 000 doesn’t give much of a “profit” when the potential costs are taken into account. For instance although it would be wholly unfair to expect the Glade organisers to have paid “extra” in 2007 when the floods occured the presence of 12,000 extra people (nearly the entire population of Stowmarket!) , with many unfamiliar to the area, would have added to the burden of the emergency operations..

    even when everything goes perfectly theres loads of extra traffic and upheaval in the local area.. also in some cases extra incidents for NHS to deal with (I can’t obviously say too much detail but a very reliable source has told me one year Glade caused a lot of various casualties – no deaths but enough to require multiple ambulance deployments)

    TBH I think in the long term both Glade and Reading should relocate to sites South of Reading where there is ample space and it faces on to a motorway / industrial estate rather than residential area, and you could crank up the volume as much as you wanted…

    from what i know (which isn’t everything :wink:), outdoor events are gettin quieter.

    sound bounces around so much, dependin on weather conditions, u are always likely to get some miserable git whinging to enviromental health, and spoiling things for the rest of us. its difficult for organisers as any resistance to moderating levels, tends to lead to more stringent conditions and more intensive monitoring of sound levels at future events.

    most older techies and performers that i have worked with, have significant hearing loss (especially when it comes to buying drinks!), but i think the peak sound levels are front of house (ie in front of the speaker stacks or arrays) and those are more of a limitation…

    one more promising development is the improved PA designs give a more even spread (when set up properly!) of sound. As i say, i’m not an expert, but i’m hoping the newer technology stuff might save us…:group_hug

    we must have someone who knowns more than me about this stuff, so i’ll stop there… 😉

    There are a few articles about this on Funktion One’s website that make interesting reading. A Funktion One rig was used on the pyramid stage in 2007 (when the sound team and F1 were roundly slated for being too quiet).

    FUNKTION-ONE

    The reason why the rig was running at such a low level on one of the days was that the sound level measured at the festival boundaries is required to be below a certain level. Because of atmospheric conditions the sound level was abnormally high at one of the festival boundaries and the environmental consultants told the crew to turn the sound system down. This pissed the crowd off and to prevent the situation from becoming dangerous the crew eventually turned the volume back up.

    According to Tony Andrews, Funktion One’s owner, sound restrictions have become increasingly draconian over the last 20 years or so.

    And it’s true that sound systems can be more directional nowadays (particularly with the widespread use of line array based systems), but these systems tend to compromise sound quality for a number of reasons. I’ve just written a paper on the subject (line arrays vs point source arrays) and both systems have their uses.

    cheeseweasel;241934 wrote:
    There are a few articles about this on Funktion One’s website that make interesting reading. A Funktion One rig was used on the pyramid stage in 2007 (when the sound team and F1 were roundly slated for being too quiet).

    FUNKTION-ONE

    The reason why the rig was running at such a low level on one of the days was that the sound level measured at the festival boundaries is required to be below a certain level. Because of atmospheric conditions the sound level was abnormally high at one of the festival boundaries and the environmental consultants told the crew to turn the sound system down. This pissed the crowd off and to prevent the situation from becoming dangerous the crew eventually turned the volume back up.

    According to Tony Andrews, Funktion One’s owner, sound restrictions have become increasingly draconian over the last 20 years or so.

    And it’s true that sound systems can be more directional nowadays (particularly with the widespread use of line array based systems), but these systems tend to compromise sound quality for a number of reasons. I’ve just written a paper on the subject (line arrays vs point source arrays) and both systems have their uses.

    v interestin, thanks! raaa

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