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Germany Just Produced So Much Renewable Energy That It Had To Pay People To Use

Forums Life Environment Germany Just Produced So Much Renewable Energy That It Had To Pay People To Use

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  • It just means they need more storage capacity. Still really cool.

    Think storing electricity is the biggest difficulty in the generation and supply process.

    Battery storage and hyrdo storage are the only two ways. Most all the good places for hydro storage are already taken and they use price arbitrage to make money with these facilities so having an abundance of renewable energy may mean that there is more energy than hydro storage capacity. Battery storage is great for when there is a shit ton of excess energy that needs to be stored but the tech isn’t ready for prime time and I’m not sure when it will be could be a year or two or never.

    Never heard of hydro storage before and while capacitors can store electricity, I don’t believe they are able to do it for very long which is where the problem comes in I think. Normal batteries use chemical processes to generate electricity whereas this need is different. Tbh I have no clue what I’m on about however.

    Lithium Ion batteries- you charge it up when there is a shit ton of renewable energy (usually excess wind energy) then let it out when there is no wind or solar, perhaps in the evening

    Hydro storage: you pump water up a hill from behind one dam to behind another dam when the price of electricity is cheap and then let it out the higher dam to make electricity when the price is higher

    Yes but how long will the charge remain without leakage? Then scale up by a million.

    @Shakyamuni 984089 wrote:

    Lithium Ion batteries- you charge it up when there is a shit ton of renewable energy (usually excess wind energy) then let it out when there is no wind or solar, perhaps in the evening

    Hydro storage: you pump water up a hill from behind one dam to behind another dam when the price of electricity is cheap and then let it out the higher dam to make electricity when the price is higher

    Hydro storage sounds weird but understandable. With an excess of power you use it to power something like an Archimedes screw to raise the kinetic energy of shitloads of water and when needed, release the water. Not so much storage as cost effective it sounds.

    @tryptameanie 984090 wrote:

    Yes but how long will the charge remain without leakage? Then scale up by a million.

    Charge doesn’t last long but the sun shines everyday and the wind blows often so you just recharge it more or less everyday.

    Sun does shine everyday, sometimes clouds obscure it. Winf blows every day, somewhere, but wind isn’t gonna consistently power a country just yet. That thing in Denmark was a one time event but fuck me they must have a lot of wind turbines.

    Would seem renewable energy sources are much better in some locations than I thought.

    Portugal Powered For Four Days Straight Entirely By Renewable Energy | IFLScience

    Everywhere else in Europe other than the UK (including IE) started with implementing renewable energy generation (and linking the electricity grids across borders) 30 years ago ; I remember being taught about this in both junior and high school.

    There were even various solar panels but back then the Chinese were thought of as “dangerous foreigners who might drop the atom bomb on us” rather than “hard working people who make all sorts of useful gadgets” and the Japanese did not have the production capacity to make enough of them for global demand on top of TV sets, hi fi etc (there are not that many people in Japan). A lot of the better solar panels used today designed by Japanese companies by profs from JP, CN, KR, MY and SG; and built in factories across Asia and Europe (including places you might not expect such as Wales).

    Also in 1986 the Soviet Union and its neighbours in Europe all learned (once again) the hard way just what can go wrong with nuclear power.

    Most inter country links in Europe now use high voltage DC – overhead cables when there is only a land border and submarine cables below the North Sea. Although Europe uses 50 Hz AC electricity throughout; synchronising the grid across national borders (which was already in operation by the 2000s) further increases risks of cascading failures.

    In 2006 when the Germans decided (sensibly enough) to shut down a 380 000V main grid circuit which spanned a tidal river; so a large cruise ship taller than usual may pass safely below it (as that sort of voltage flashovers can easily happen especially against large metal objects with good connection to earth).

    Unfortunately there was a last minute change to the timing which was not communicated effectively to all the European power companies; the grid frequency dipped way below 49,5 Hz causing automatic shutdowns -as unbalanced loads on interconnected generators can cause all sorts of unpleasantness including one generator trying to run another like a motor (when it is already being turned round by the turbines); if the circuit breakers are not very quickly opened there will soon be Fire / Explosions etc. So that led to lights out all the way to ES and PT, an infinite amount of Angst for Germans – the managers of that distribution company got such a bollocking from BNetzA and the EU, took their early pensions and sold the whole lot to the Dutch (incidentally their central electricity generation is still nationalised)

    DC circuits do not require synchronisation (although there are converters at each end to link to the AC grid – larger versions of the power units in a computer supply and a UPS),

    The DC cables have up to + / – 450 000V between each outer and earth (or “earth ground” as the Americans call it). Between the L+ and L- points will therefore be 900 000V (a lot of volts; it is impressive that cables with strong enough insulation are possible without ending up boiling half the remaining fish in the North Sea.)

    I snagged a load of screen shots of the EU website that shows the transfers across countries (it is a very new site and not all of it works correctly’ plus UK and some companies in DE are not providing complete information) and once I’ve sorted through them I’ll try and upload a few. England actually canes half of Scotlands electricity and a great amount from FR and NL; there are two more cables being built between NO and UK

    Northern Europe does have a lot of wind

    [IMG]https://www.partyvibe.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=155339&d=1464106520[/IMG]

    the Scandinavians and Germans are quite sensibly putting this to good use; and buiiding yet another wind farm but there is sometimes so much wind it blows the marker buoys from their positions..

    [IMG]https://www.partyvibe.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=155340&d=1464106520[/IMG]

    I only got distracted about 30 times reading that post lol. My god your recall is immense.

    I work in an industry where peoples safety depends on reliable electric supplies (even a 30 second off supply can cause all sorts of hassle if precautions are not taken) and with the increasing use of online resources, satellite broadband links etc this requirement extends beyond the site location into the whole of Europe – so I have to be aware of all this (its also why I try and keep up with my languages).

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Forums Life Environment Germany Just Produced So Much Renewable Energy That It Had To Pay People To Use