Party Vibe

bams and eejits (cannae’ even discover LTE devices as stingrays are only GSM) ; surely the Scots could have come up with something smarter given some folks skills with radio equipment?

A few years ago one of their radio amateurs groups (who do sometimes acquire Harris Halliburton equipment) said they only use these “boatanchor” rigs in winter as it means they don’t need to wear their anoraks inside their shacks as the valves heat up what is often only a large shed or outbuilding with limited heating; and that the modern Japanese and even cheaper Chinese equipment is far superior…

I would have expected them to build a device that discovered all the mobiles and blared the pipes to them (they have also rehoused a third of all Syrian refugees sent to the UK, who are equally fond of piping as are the many folk from BD and PK who have traditionally settled in Scotland) although that might be classed as a EU human right violation :laugh_at:

The screws need access to the Airwave radio network or any other similar wireless comms services to keep in touch with Police Scotland independently of British Telecom.

When I lived in SE England they still used analogue UHF comms linked to a VHF repeater to contact Thames Valley; the call sign for HMPYOI Reading (now closed down) was “Mike Two Oscar Alpha” (wouldn’t be surprised if the folk at DTELS in charge of allocating these had a sense of humour) :laugh_at:

The Faraday cage would also have to be bonded to mains protective earth and any exposed metal inside the prison because of electric safety rules (creating further unwanted blackspots inside the building) added to which the Airwave base station (used by all the blue light services, military, and others such as MI5 and even SEPA/SSPCA) is likely to be some kilometres outside the prison, usually near to or on the roof of the local Telephone Exchange as BT originally built this system.

Airwave works in a similar way to any GSM mobile but on a lower frequency and with more security features (to the point that the blue light services forbid their own staff monitoring unauthorised talkgroups as even listening takes up bandwidth due to the authentication / decryption involved). Putting it inside would be expensive as it would require very secure broadband links to the rest of the network, backup power supplies, the costs couldn’t be shared with other users and could also leave the prison open to claims from staff and inmates paranoid about “radiation”.

Some prisons in England apparently still use their analogue UHF radios; quite recently a plastic gangster in South London who had obtained a Chinese handheld UHF radio (perfectly legal to use as long as you have the right licenses) set it to the HMP frequency and started taunting the screws (predictably he was soon traced by Ofcom and ended up inside rather than outside…)

prisons (as well as hospitals, care homes and other similar institutions) all make increasing use of wireless communications on lots of frequencies (anything from national and local pager networks to the “industrial grade” DECT cordless phones; GPS receivers for locating officers, setting master clocks all of which would be upset by the deployment of a Faraday cage or anything else that blocked or jammed radio signals.

The Govt is also trying to replace Airwave with LTE services on the same band as 4G mobile phones (which is a bad idea anyway). Using a stingray is equally silly as it only picks up old style mobiles.

Even with full co-operation from the mobile companies (who will assist any legitimate public service as they are much more valuable customers than criminals) they can’t always prove the device was used within the jail if the base station has a 10km range (for the same reason I have to remind people at work not to use a mobile for a 999 call if a fixed phone is available as the Ambulance Control may select the wrong address).

The sensible solution to this problem (which is EU wide as only Denmark permits prisoners to bring in mobile phones to open prisons and they are still having real problems with terrorist sympathisers using them) would actually be to set up a proper GSM/LTE base station at the top of the prison with the correct licensing from the Communications Ministry and custom software (so legitimate users can access the network) – and maybe even permit some low risk prisoners limited access to some services especially those related to education or rehabilitation but block the social networks etc.

This base station signal should overpower any others anyway and other prisoners are likely to then be too paranoid to bring in illicit devices knowing everything could be monitored…

@tryptameanie 984296 wrote:

Don’t mean to be a nob here but one thing you said was difficulty in proving where a phone was used (and you gave a distance of 10KM) but can’t location be determined by triangulation?

Although this is possible (and has been since radio was invented and in the 20th century was often used to locate ships lost at sea) the types of phones smuggled into prison do not normally have GPS or wifi that make this task easier and there is always likely to be a position error. This error is greater at lower frequencies (it is why the middle aged Dutch chaps can hide a 100W FM radio transmitter (88-108 MHz) within a mobile phone mast and yet Agentschap Telecom still take a month or so to track it down).

Out of curiosity I was recently comparing GPS data against the geolocation of Windows 10 on a battered netbook which barely worked correctly but just about connected to wifi (like most others appears to use data from people who have willingly coughed up their home address to some company, possibly as part of registering the warranty on a high value gadget connected to their home wifi).

it was interesting to see how close it (I use unusual custom SSIDs for all networks I set up and had literally shut down every other device in the building that could possibly provide a GPS or other location) – it had the right street but was about 100m off.

Although HMPYOI Reading closed last year – the building was located near to a public park called Forbury Gardens. Reading is an affluent high tech town and well supplied with mobile base stations, but even then a best case triangulation on LTE 2100 MHz signals (near the 2400 MHz used by wifi) would mean it is not possible to prove if the mobile device was used by a prisoner in the YOI or a free person in the nearby garden.

@tryptameanie 984299 wrote:

I remember Jill Dandos killer was convicted partly due to the triangulation of his location as he made various calls but that’s going back a lot of years now. Didn’t she read the news?

the suspect was eventually acquitted on appeal and this remains an unsolved case, something the BBC are not quick to admit to as it highlights their own shortcomings of close protection for high profile staff (there was a great deal of serious organised crime in the 1990s so a crime journalist would always be a target).

Mobile phone evidence may be admissible in Court for something such as proving a suspect has driven from London to South Shields but would also have to be backed up by other sources such as CCTV and ANPR camera data, purchases of petrol/diesel made on the journey etc…