Party Vibe

i could theorise that the mind is much like a computer – triggers that trigger triggers and electrical impulses and so on, with the mind operating similarly (though with minor differences in the way it works such as UNIX vs Vax/ms).

a computer is just an adding machine though no? on or off is its basic function, 1 or 0

the truth is, i fully understand neither, and so judgement becomes severely limited to what i have so far experienced within my lifetime, which contradicts the whole point of the question. i think to find a real answer we could not be within the limits of our own minds. and so there is no answer, the mind is the most high security prison i suppose.

There may be an answer, I think its like the guide, the problem is finding the right question

@joshd96320 385044 wrote:

yes 1984… calculations… you could argue that our mind does the same thing, just more complex

My mind just seems to perpetually sulk 🙁 I think its broken lol

@joshd96320 385044 wrote:

yes 1984… calculations… you could argue that our mind does the same thing, just more complex

computers and the brain work in very different ways. We dont even know if consciousness is turing computable (ie possible with the sort of algorithms computers use)

it might require a new approach to computing (such as quantum computers) to even consider simulating consciousness

@Iacchus 385053 wrote:

computers and the brain work in very different ways. We dont even know if consciousness is turing computable (ie possible with the sort of algorithms computers use)

it might require a new approach to computing (such as quantum computers) to even consider simulating consciousness

im not so sure. as i said it was just a theory, but i think it is quite justifiable that our human consciousness may overall be the result of calculations constantly being performed on constantly changing variables, ie, our consciousness (the mathematical ‘result’) is a result of everything around us… the world (the ‘variables’ in the equation).

@joshd96320 385059 wrote:

im not so sure. as i said it was just a theory, but i think it is quite justifiable that our human consciousness may overall be the result of calculations constantly being performed on constantly changing variables, ie, our consciousness (the mathematical ‘result’) is a result of everything around us… the world (the ‘variables’ in the equation).

consciousness is definately the result of ‘calculations’ with constantly changing variables I wasnt denying that, but the brain is more like an analogue system, neurons can carry signals of varying intensity (consider how a pain sensor can give a mild pain or a sharp pain, this information is carried in the frequency of the neuron firing).
It’s definately not a discrete/digital system like our computers

hence neuroscientists doubting that consciousness is turing computable.. many mathematical functions are uncomputable with the way our computers work. Hence people suspecting that if we ever get close to simulating consciousness the result will be far more like a biological brain then any computer we have at the moment

@Iacchus 385055 wrote:

Yes feelings are subjective, and the thinking is divided into two parts, people who think that the electrical signals in the brain is in its entirity the consciousness we experience (materialists), or people who think that the electrical signals in the brain create ‘the mind’, as an entity separate from the brain (dualists). Read up on philisophy of mind if you are interested in these concepts. The latter makes more sense to me as feelings and experiences seem to be outside the realms of science as we know it

I have just ordered Sophie’s World to start reading up on some philosophy, needs to be done! I would have thought its akin to software on a computer, if the computer is the brain the software would be consciousness. Not that I think a computer is like a brain at all, but you see what I mean perhaps.

I was not at all implying the consciousness is not a function of the brain, if dualism turns out to be true then the mind is still completely created by the brain, but still exists outside of the brain. Everythign you experience (including drug experiences) completely correlate to brain function but might not be in their entirety brain function alone.
Anyway the point i was making with dissocates is that the ‘mind’ in the dualist view can exist elsewhere to the body, so if turns out there is any truth to dualism then it is feasable that consciousness doesnt have to be a private experience

I still dont see how dissociates are anything other than a trick of perception, nor do I see how consciousness located anywhere else than the brain. But it this will now all be stuck in my brain going round and round for the next few weeks I fear! pondering away.

human consciousness is a product of evolution yes, but the fact that conscious observation changes the nature of reality implies that consciousness is a more fundamental property of the universe, or at least interacts with reality in some special way we do not understand

Well not we are into quantum stuff and as someone far wise than me once said, if you think you understand quantum theory then you haven’t understood it. So I am not even going to attempt to dip my toe in there!

Heh yeah these conversations are best had lying in the sun on a beautuful day staring up at the sky :love:

ps i never studied philosophy i did physics but I read lots of books about consciousness and the brain.. its a fascination of mine

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@1984 385079 wrote:

I have just ordered Sophie’s World to start reading up on some philosophy, needs to be done! I would have thought its akin to software on a computer, if the computer is the brain the software would be consciousness. Not that I think a computer is like a brain at all, but you see what I mean perhaps.
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Sweet let me know if thats any good, i havent read it. It could simply be akin to software on a computer yes, but I would suspect if it was just like that then it would not result in our self awareness. Only time will tell.

@1984 385079 wrote:

I still dont see how dissociates are anything other than a trick of perception, nor do I see how consciousness located anywhere else than the brain. But it this will now all be stuck in my brain going round and round for the next few weeks I fear! pondering away.
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if you believe that consciousness is nothing more than electrical signals in the brain and our awareness is more of an illusion/side effect of that, then yes dissociates are just a trick of the brain.. until we know more though i think its a leap of faith to assume that consciousness is nothing more than information processing, just as much as it is a leap of faith to assume that consciousness results in a ‘mind’ that exists outside the 4 dimensions as we know it. Again only time will tell 😛

@1984 385079 wrote:

Well not we are into quantum stuff and as someone far wise than me once said, if you think you understand quantum theory then you haven’t understood it. So I am not even going to attempt to dip my toe in there!

It’s worth reading up on, the fact that the universe ‘knows if we are watching’ and behaves differently if we are is really amazing to me.. all sorts of cunning experiments were devised to test this and the results are really astounding.
I’d recommend ‘In search of schrodingers cat’ as a good amateur novel on the subject