Forums › Life › Computers, Gadgets & Technology › cross overs (again)
Hmmm….I’m not quite sure how I’d run it. Any chance of a photo of the kit so I can figure out how I’d do it.
smells like bacon…….copper
BAN!!
hahaha:crazy_dru
Nah I just remember there were two different designs of W-bin and I wana figure out which plans they come from to understand the x-over freqs to use.
the w’s i just got are front facing twin 15s. think there custom designed to run as low mids on a 70kw rig. but they will rin sweet as bass. there not stored here as trhere too big there in my storage unit.
Aye I’ve got to figure out how to work our borrowed Xover before next week when ma tower is comin out for the 1st time:wink: (Providin everythin goes to plan which it probably won’t).
Got a behringer Ultra drive pro DCX2496
Probably similar to the one MrAHC is on about but it would be rete useful if someone could give us a rough guide on how to use it!
I’m gonna be runnin it 3 way (Someone tell me if I’d be better runnin 2 way)
Its for a bass-bin, a couple of 12″ mid-drivers and a couple of slot tweeters.
Havent got any of the cables yet either. Went to Maplin the other day to get it all and the only stuff they had was some speaker cable, some spade connectors and one male XLR :head_bang
Anyway the next stuff I need a hand with hasnt really got owt to do with this thread so I’ll stick it in the one I started about the sound system I’m buildin. I need to have the entire thing done by next week like I said so speedy answers please you lovely people:weee::weee:
(Also, is there any way of saving the settings of the Xover so they can be quickly loaded back into it whenever you need to so I don’t have to piss about setting it up EVERY time?)
Got a behringer Ultra drive pro DCX2496
Probably similar to the one MrAHC is on about but it would be rete useful if someone could give us a rough guide on how to use it!
I’m gonna be runnin it 3 way (Someone tell me if I’d be better runnin 2 way)
Its for a bass-bin, a couple of 12″ mid-drivers and a couple of slot tweeters.
Havent got any of the cables yet either. Went to Maplin the other day to get it all and the only stuff they had was some speaker cable, some spade connectors and one male XLR :head_bang
Anyway the next stuff I need a hand with hasnt really got owt to do with this thread so I’ll stick it in the one I started about the sound system I’m buildin. I need to have the entire thing done by next week like I said so speedy answers please you lovely people:weee::weee:
(Also, is there any way of saving the settings of the Xover so they can be quickly loaded back into it whenever you need to so I don’t have to piss about setting it up EVERY time?)
Couldn’t go for an easy option to learn with eh? The Ultradrive is a fairly complex beast, and it would take me a good while to explain all it’s functions for you (and tbh – RTFM… It has the best explanation of how to work the functions, get around the menu’s etc).
I can give you a general setup guide though:
Firstly, definetly 3 way (more control over how the power is allocated to speakers is always good – from the efficiency POV, and the audio quality one). I replied to your post on wiring btw, so have a look there for the info on cables and whatnot (if you want a good place to get them, go look at Blue Aran – good prices, quick delivery and they’ll definetly have the cables you need).
So, having wired it, you need to make sure your speakers are properly aligned in timing phase (basically, the centre of each driver, where the coil connects to the cone need to be aligned for each of the 2 stacks, so you aren’t hearing some of the frequency spectrum before or after other bits).
If you have folded horns, or scoop bins etc, you need to measure the distance from the driver to the exit of the box, and if you have horn flares on the tops, you need to measure the distance from driver to flare exit so you can set up delays on the x-over bands…. You calculate the delays by using the rough guide 1ms of delay=1.1ft of travel (so if your low horn drivers are 3.8ft from the point where the mid drivers are, you need to delay the mids by (3.8/1.1 = 3.45ms) – the manual will explain this for each freq band… You should also align your stacks so the drivers are aligned vertically, because it will help to stop interference in the output waves – if you were to sit your boxes side by side, the distance to the listeners ear would be different for each frequency band, and depending on where the listener is standing (if they are stacked vertically, the distance to the listener changes similarly for each stack no matter where in the space he is standing).
Having aligned speakers, set up the x-over to a basic set of values (I would use somewhere around 100Hz for the lo-mid x-over frequency, and somewhere around 3-4KHz for mid-high – check your top drivers as they will likely have a minimum frequency to drive them with – don’t set the mid/top range near or below this, as you’ll blow your tweeters. Set the gains to 0dB for all outputs to start with).
From here, you will need to RTFM for the ultradrive, and learn it’s other functions, and then use them to make the sound right (there are all sorts of scientific and technical ways to attempt this, employing all sorts of arcane kit from sine generators to oscilliscopes etc. My recommendation would be to use the first tool of any sound engineer – your hearing. Find a tune you know really well, and starting with all eq’s flat, make it sound like you would expect it to by tuning the x-over frequencies, gains and all the other features the ultradrive has….)
And make note to self – next time choose slightly more accessible kit to learn on 😉 (the ultradrive is a very powerful device, but like any device that has many options takes a long time to learn how to use properly…. Not necessarily what you want when you’re learning how to use all the other kit at the same time…..
I can give you a general setup guide though:
Firstly, definetly 3 way (more control over how the power is allocated to speakers is always good – from the efficiency POV, and the audio quality one). I replied to your post on wiring btw, so have a look there for the info on cables and whatnot (if you want a good place to get them, go look at Blue Aran – good prices, quick delivery and they’ll definetly have the cables you need).
So, having wired it, you need to make sure your speakers are properly aligned in timing phase (basically, the centre of each driver, where the coil connects to the cone need to be aligned for each of the 2 stacks, so you aren’t hearing some of the frequency spectrum before or after other bits).
If you have folded horns, or scoop bins etc, you need to measure the distance from the driver to the exit of the box, and if you have horn flares on the tops, you need to measure the distance from driver to flare exit so you can set up delays on the x-over bands…. You calculate the delays by using the rough guide 1ms of delay=1.1ft of travel (so if your low horn drivers are 3.8ft from the point where the mid drivers are, you need to delay the mids by (3.8/1.1 = 3.45ms) – the manual will explain this for each freq band… You should also align your stacks so the drivers are aligned vertically, because it will help to stop interference in the output waves – if you were to sit your boxes side by side, the distance to the listeners ear would be different for each frequency band, and depending on where the listener is standing (if they are stacked vertically, the distance to the listener changes similarly for each stack no matter where in the space he is standing).
Having aligned speakers, set up the x-over to a basic set of values (I would use somewhere around 100Hz for the lo-mid x-over frequency, and somewhere around 3-4KHz for mid-high – check your top drivers as they will likely have a minimum frequency to drive them with – don’t set the mid/top range near or below this, as you’ll blow your tweeters. Set the gains to 0dB for all outputs to start with).
From here, you will need to RTFM for the ultradrive, and learn it’s other functions, and then use them to make the sound right (there are all sorts of scientific and technical ways to attempt this, employing all sorts of arcane kit from sine generators to oscilliscopes etc. My recommendation would be to use the first tool of any sound engineer – your hearing. Find a tune you know really well, and starting with all eq’s flat, make it sound like you would expect it to by tuning the x-over frequencies, gains and all the other features the ultradrive has….)
And make note to self – next time choose slightly more accessible kit to learn on 😉 (the ultradrive is a very powerful device, but like any device that has many options takes a long time to learn how to use properly…. Not necessarily what you want when you’re learning how to use all the other kit at the same time…..
Yeh I think readin the manual would be the best thing to do:crazy:
and yeh I have got a rediculously hard piece of kit to learn on. Luckily its not ours so as soon as I can I’ll try and get an X-over thats not quite as complicated:weee: Cheers for the explanation about phase cancellation, that was one thing that I didn’t know how to sort out. Probably won’t be much of an issue for our stack tho coz all the drivers are gunna be lined up vertically anyway and the setup is relatively un-complicated. Thats another thing that I were wonderin about as well, the X-over points. I think I’m gunna either plot the bass bin on WinISD to try and figure out where to cross it over so it would get the best out of it. Either that or just plug the bass-bin into ma pc and use a signal generator to see where it would be best to X-over by just listenin to it.
Cheers
Using a PC to sort the xover points is only good to give you a basic idea of where they should be – you will need to tune them by ear every time you set your rig up, because the best xover point will change with each venue you do (venue acoustics change the sound coming out of the speakers – an outdoor venue will be quite different to an indoor one. Mostly this will take practice, and a good ear for what you are wanting from the sound – try not to rely too heavily on technology to help you though. Your most valuable piece of kit in this respect will always be your own ears 😉 )…
Yeh I know where to X em over now:crazy_dru
Aye I agree about the ear thing, they are pretty damn useful haha
My xovers just an orniment in the rack now coz i’ll never know how to use it.
Thats what I thought ours were gunna be n all but when I read the manual a little bit and had a general fuck about with it it werent actually as complicated as I thought.
mine didnt come wi a manual n i canny fuck about wi it coz i canny run the speakers indoors. cant as for advice on here coz you need a degree to understand what there on about.
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Forums › Life › Computers, Gadgets & Technology › cross overs (again)
