Forums › Life › Politics, Media & Current Events › End Israel’s Barbarity
I’m with Cliffy on this one.
We were on our way home from Cali when..kinda a weird feeling being on the highway thinking of the series ‘Jericho’….!:scared:
Poke a lion with a stick and it’s gonna fuck you up eventually.
All these arguments are just FUD to distract us from the real issues. A peaceful political solution to this conflict (return to something resembling the 1967 borders, the right of return for refugees and Jerusalem) has been on the table at the United Nations for 30 years (hundreds of countries in complete agreement agreement for that long, imagine that!) where it’s voted on once a year based on the illegitimacy of acquiring territory by war. The vote is always unanimous except for the United States (veto), Israel, (sometimes) Australia and some pacific islands but never the UK (!). And notice even Fatah and Hamas agree on the two states solution…
A detailed history of the conflict:
Part 1: http://www.arabic.hour.org/Video/AH_11_9_2005_NormFinkelstein/Norm_p1.wmv
Part 2: http://www.arabic.hour.org/Video/AH_11_9_2005_NormFinkelstein/Norm_p2.wmv
just nuke the lot of em! that seems alot easyer thus no argument!
Poke a lion with a stick and it’s gonna fuck you up eventually.
Bollocks. Israel is entirely in the wrong.
They illegally occupy Palestinian territory and I’m not just harking back to the pre-Israeli Palestine but even nowadays the illegal Jewish settlement of the West Banks backed by Israeli armed forces.
They have blockaded the Gaza Strip refusing to allow aid to the starving people, reducing a once prosperous nation to one giant POW camp.
In every conflict bar 1 since the inception has Israel has been started by the Israelis with their US bought modern weaponry (why do you think the US loves them $$$$$$$$).
They claim they are struggling to be allowed to live yet for the last 1300 years before the inception of Israel Palestine was famously tolerant, treating Jews, Muslims and Christians with the same level of respect. This shit only started when they wanted it to be a solely Jewish land.
Basically Israel is a modern war machine fighting an illegal war against a group who are literally fighting for survival. If some fuckers annexed half of the UK leaving me starving and unable to leave (the Egyptian border is closed also due to Israeli military threats) I would have no qualms about fucking them up. Israel has been the agressor for the last 60 years so the last 6 months mean fuck all.
*cough*
Shit forgot to say Israels only claim to the land they are stealing/have stolen is that they were promised it by God in a fictional book thousands of years ago.
i think in terms of military conflict israel has no idea what “proportionate response” means, its like throw a stone at us and we’ll fucking nuke you
also in the historical political reasons behind the conflict israel doesnt really have a leg to stand on either. it occupies palestinian territory and has now built a massive fucking wall around the place with two roads in and two roads out… how this is allowed to happen i dont know (well i do, its american money and backing innit)
its not just palestine… im not too sure about hamas, but i certainly have sympathy with hezbollah, i would not list them as a terrorist faction
here is somethin i did around the time of the lebanon conflict
“Hezbollah has never been against religions. Hezbollah supports all religions, it supports interfaith dialogue, and it has no problem with any religion. Hezbollah considers Zionism to be the enemy, not the Jews as a people or a religion.”
Hezbollah MP Abdallah Qussayr
Hezbollah recognizes and promotes women’s rights (in the mold of the Western liberal tradition).
Hezbollah also organizes extensive social development programs, running hospitals, news services, and educational facilities. Social services have a central role in the party’s programs. Most experts believe that Hezbollah’s social and health programmes are worth hundreds of millions of dollars annually.
The European Union does not list Hezbollah, or any group within it, a “terrorist” organization.
Israel killed an estimated 1,123 innocent civilians during the 2006 Lebanese conflict.. The death toll estimates don’t include Lebanese killed since the end of fighting by land mines or unexploded Israeli cluster bombs. Hezbollah rockets killed 43 Israeli civilians during the conflict.
Israel has not signed the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.
“The US and Israel have demanded further that Palestinians not only recognize Israel’s rights as a state in the international system, but that they also recognize Israel’s abstract ‘right to exist’, a concept that has no place in international law and diplomacy, and a right claimed by no one. In effect, the US and Israel are demanding Palestinians not only recognize Israel in the normal fashion of interstate relations, but also formally accept the legitimacy of their expulsion from their land. They cannot be expected to accept that, just as Mexico does not grant the US the ‘right to exist’ on half of Mexico’s territory, gained by conquest.”
Avram Noam Chomsky
If i remember rightly all the bordering arab nations attacked Israel at once, but due to Israels strategic planning Isrel kicked each and everyone of there arses. Isreal has kepped hold of part of the land it it captured. Its not doing a good job of winning hearts and minds and in a way has itself to blame for the extreemists moving in.
If people feel oppressed and let down they become fair game for extreem political solutions; Russia – Comunisim, Germany – Nazis, Iraq – Al Quida.
The same has has and is happening in the UK the North of Ireland has gone from the SDLP & UUP to Sinn Fein & the DUP from moderates to the extreem on both sides. Scotland has now voted in a hard line Nationalist party & England now has a far right Nationalist party in the mainsreem with the BNP.
The trouble with the Palistinian & Israil is you can get drawn in with anti semmites & anti islamics. Isreil has a right to exist in my opinion the Jews after the holochaust needed a homeland & that land was at onetime theirs. The palistinians & the extreemist muslims want them gone and like Sinn Fein in the 70s will use the opression/civil rights to push there real agenda.
Work it out for yourself what you think is right. Dont just read the left wing media read independent and pro Israili stuff, read it all and form your own opinion.
Personly I wouldnt get involved as I’ve had enough of civil wars there to divicive and can break up friendships, relationships and familys. Also watching family members holding there guts in through a knife wound isnt very plesent.
also in the historical political reasons behind the conflict israel doesnt really have a leg to stand on either. it occupies palestinian territory and has now built a massive fucking wall around the place with two roads in and two roads out… how this is allowed to happen i dont know (well i do, its american money and backing innit)
its not just palestine… im not too sure about hamas, but i certainly have sympathy with hezbollah, i would not list them as a terrorist faction
here is somethin i did around the time of the lebanon conflict
Hamas was designated a terrorist organisation by Israel and the United State when they refused to recognise Israel’s right to exist unless they withdrew to the 1967 border…
The SNP is just the labour party but with the added Scottish independence clause…..hardly hard line. They are in power and we still ain’t independent. The BNP are about as mainstream as Kilroy Silks’s Veritas.
Nah the Palestinians and extremist Muslims want an end to Zionism. 1300 years of religious tolerance followed by 60 years of bullshit about it being the promised land of the children of Abraham.
Well I’ve got some news for them….Jews, Christians and Muslims are all of common origin and are all the children of Abraham so share it or fuck off.
This is my take on this nightmare, i am quite happy to debate this as i do not feel that i’m am well enough informed/educated, to feel that i know wot the ‘balance of guilt’ in this sad situation is, but…
i think its fairly obvious to me that the UK and the US bear some responsibility for this grim situation.
There was alot of guilt amongst the allies after WW2 and the holocaust, and the idea of a Jewish homeland was basically a respectable one, but the implementation of that idea has been a disaster…
Its hard to blame the Isrealies for being paranoid, because anti-semitism has been persent across europe (especially in times of hardship), for many centuries.
Antisemitism – Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
‘Extreme instances of persecution include the German Crusade of 1096, the expulsion from England in 1290, the Spanish Inquisition, the expulsion from Spain in 1492, the expulsion from Portugal in 1497, various pogroms, and the most infamous, the Holocaust under Adolf Hitler‘s Nazi Germany.’
So the paranoia is well founded, as both christianity and islam are clearly have anti semitic elements, and the paranoia was reinforced as recently as the arab-isreali wars of 1948, 1967 and 1973 (during which the west largely supported israel).
Arab?Israeli conflict – Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
So the isrealies may be paranoid, but clearly the arabs are out to get them. The arabs would like, and have tried, to drive them into the sea.
Now the UK/US attempted solution to the ‘Jewish problem’ was clearly an advance on Hitlers, but it has been the cause of further entrenchment of long held animosities. :hopeless:
Having tried to explain why the Iraelies are behaving like nutters, i’ll now move on to the other side of this unholy mess.
The Palestinians were basically the fall guys in 1948 and subsequently, because they are now the ones who are stateless, just as the jews were.
Palestinian people – Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Palestinians plight has been repeatedly been recognized by the UN, but the UN resolutions been ignored.
I was discussing the subject with a friend last week, and he said that he thought that the Israelis (note he did not say ‘the jews’, an important distinction), were the new Nazi’s.
This is not a statement i actually agree with, but my god he has a point… How on earth can the Israelies treat any people in a way that even partially mimics the persecution they themselves have faced? :hopeless: They more than anybody should know how the Palestinians feel…Surely Israel has squandered any kind of moral high ground, and ought to be deeply ashamed of (and indeed held to account for) its current aggresion.
Any solution has to give the Palestinians there own homeland, which is kinda wot to some extent already exists in Gaza and the West Bank.
Now Isreal has been heavily bankrolled and armed by the US, since its creation, mainly because of the strength of the Jewish lobby in Washington. And why is that lobby so powerful? At least partly because the US has been a refuge for the displaced and unwanted European minorites since its inception (as in the Mayflower and all that). IMO, the most powerful person in Israel is the President of the US, because he holds the purse strings.
IMHO George Bush jr, much like his father before him, has been running around the Middle East, grabbing the oil and feathering the pockets of his friends, yet also ruining the economy of his own country (nice work George!)… whilst he has done sweet FA to try and resolve the core conflict in the region.
The man is a fuckin useless self serving criminal and murderous dickhead! :yakk:
I have just reread wot i have wrote and i am fairly comfortable with it, but i am more than happy to admit that i am no kind of expert, and i respect the other views expressed in the thread, especially those condemning the Israelies. It is disgraceful behaviour, and we have been here before, ir reminds me of the Israeli aggresion in Lebanon.
One can only hope that Obama is more effective, altho as Dr B pointed out on another thread its not looking likely (unless Hilary Clinton turns out to be a superstar!), although i think Obama is trying hard not to commit himself to anything until he takes office…
I do thing that withdrawing from Iraq would be a start, and Obama cannot be as much of a twat as GBJ. Roll on the 20th (when Obama gets signed in), i cant help feeling that part of the reason the Israelies have kicked off at this time, is to take advantage of the power vacuum in the US.
This long period before the hand over of power is clearly one of the negatives of US system…
And i think Obama might take one for the team, before too long (ie get shot!), but one can but hope… :hopeless:
Nah the Palestinians and extremist Muslims want an end to Zionism. 1300 years of religious tolerance followed by 60 years of bullshit about it being the promised land of the children of Abraham.
Well I’ve got some news for them….Jews, Christians and Muslims are all of common origin and are all the children of Abraham so share it or fuck off.
The SNP are extreem to me I find them quite angry and anti English. The BNP have councilers and get a decent proportion of the vote, media coverage and political braudcasts, thus are in the mainstreem. Though there Extreemists without a doubt.
The Nazis were anti Zionist and did away with 6 million jews.
The Isralites were the children of Abraham, Christians & Muslims broke away following the New Testament and the later Qurann thus are not the children of Abriham we just have Abrihamic riligions.
Israel & the Jews have a right to exist & live in peace. If the surrounding Arab states haddnt attaced Israel & all its neighbours haddt tryed to wipe the Jewish state out then Israel wouldnt need its immence well equiped & trained army.
Why is it that Jews cant live in peace without someone trying to wipe them out.
i not sayin all muslims are terrorists but all terrorists are muslim!!!!!
What?! That is possibly one of the most ridiculous statements I have ever heard.
ETA = Catholic
IRA = Catholic
UDA = Protestant
UVF = POrotestant
Combat 18 = Neo Facist / Neo Pagan
KKK = Christian Identity
FARC = Comunist / Agnostic
Verious Balcans Paramillitarys = Greek Orthadox / Other Orthadox
Just a handfull of Trerorist Paramillitarys of the top of my head.
:crazy: and ETA/IRA/UDA/ect… like make his religion primary on the world???
:laugh_at: tel why people escape from muslims state why not escape to muslim state!!!!
why they can kill sister if shi take europen husband and change religion
WHY IS SO COMMON????
:laugh_at: tel why people escape from muslims state why not escape to muslim state!!!!
why they can kill sister if shi take europen husband and change religion
WHY IS SO COMMON????
EH?:you_crazy
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Forums › Life › Politics, Media & Current Events › End Israel’s Barbarity
