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November 18, 2016 at 12:39 pm

#983816
6

General Lighting

@general-lighting

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PS: Trimbos NL also investigates mental health on a wider scale, not just drugs use. I actually send a lot of their papers to nurses at work as they do a lot of research about age-related conditions such as dementia. I don’t know of any other healthcare organisation in Europe which has as wide a focus as this but it is exactly what everywhere else should be doing. That also has the advantage that social conservatives can’t easily reduce their funding as they could against an organisation only catering for young drugs users.
November 18, 2016 at 3:34 pm

#983822
1

Digital Buddha

@digital-buddha

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I guess I’m just talking about people who used 4-MMC to the point that the magic was gone as similar with MDMA, after that I’m sure it wasn’t that pleasant and caused some problems.
November 18, 2016 at 4:22 pm

#983817
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General Lighting

@general-lighting

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@Digital Buddha 986982 wrote:

I guess I’m just talking about people who used 4-MMC to the point that the magic was gone as similar with MDMA, after that I’m sure it wasn’t that pleasant and caused some problems.

what happened in UK reminded me exactly of 1990-1992 when MDMA first became popular here, but with the timescale speeded up about 3 times.

I didn’t see the same from NL reports as cathinones are not quite as popular there compared to UK.

It is harder to find accurate info about drug use in DE (or indeed a lot of healthcare related info) due to privacy laws keeping things out of the Press, although other German speaking countries like AT and CH are more honest about their reporting of such matters

At least in Europe (all of EU + UK, CH and NO) the health authorities nowadays do not just put things on controlled lists by picking names out of a hat but make their decisions after checking evidence of emergency reports, hospital admissions, submissions from blue light services etc. Currently Europe is divided in half between taking a more prohibitionist approach like UK and Eastern European countries, or a more harm reduction based approach similar to NL and DK.
November 18, 2016 at 4:27 pm

#983830
1

tryptameanie

@tryptameanie

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@General Lighting 986979 wrote:

The 2 lads who died had been taking synthetic opiates rather than cathinones.

That’s true, but that didn’t stop police calling an international press conference to say they’d died from mephedrone. Yes it turned out to be methadone but that doesn’t change my point.
November 18, 2016 at 4:31 pm

#983831
1

tryptameanie

@tryptameanie

Participant
@Digital Buddha 986982 wrote:

I guess I’m just talking about people who used 4-MMC to the point that the magic was gone as similar with MDMA, after that I’m sure it wasn’t that pleasant and caused some problems.

Okay, I understand. I hammered 4-MMC as did many others and as with most all drugs, constant use leads to diminishing returns but 4-MMC still seemed to give consistent effects even after a long time whereas with MDMA and the “magic” going, that’s absolutely the case. The effect of MDMA after heavy or long term use is similar but the empathetic effects are much lessened.
November 18, 2016 at 4:48 pm

#983818
6

General Lighting

@general-lighting

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@tryptameanie 986984 wrote:

That’s true, but that didn’t stop police calling an international press conference to say they’d died from mephedrone. Yes it turned out to be methadone but that doesn’t change my point.

This is really a fault of the UK system and the role of the Police in it, who are in some regions expected to do the work that drugs harm reduction agencies with healthcare workers really should be doing instead. that aspect is becoming discredited to the point you don’t see it as much elsewhere in the world. Although UK is still respected for a lot of things, foreign countries do have the sense not to follow us blindly for bad decisions (such as Brexit, or our unsafe road networks).

Not even in some of the Asian countries now, in fact just last year Malaysia was working with Switzerland on improving harm reduction. This is something I never thought I’d see in my lifetime.

Contrast it with advice from local Police in NL I saw recently, where they basically just said (original was of course in Dutch) “these MDMA pills are strong, and some other have PMMA. We would rather you didn’t take them, but if you are going to do anyway get them tested – and they then put a link directly to Trimbos or one of its partner agencies rather than the cops stating their opinions”. UK cops still seem to say you will drop dead if you take any drugs or to call 999 for the slightest issues (rather than stating when it is really essential), pushing work on to the NHS rather than backing them up. Mainland European agencies work together much better.
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