Are freeparties Public or Private? The wrong answer to this question can get you into a lot of trouble.
The correct answer is Private. unless you have a Public Entertainments License. PEL.
If your party is done FOR the Public and you have Entertainment you need a licence.
If your Party is Advertised in the Public Domain then you need a License.
The new amendments to PEL now makes Equipment Owners or Hirers and DJ’s liable as well as Organizers and Management.
unless
FREEPARTIES ARE PRIVATE FREEPARTIES ARE PRIVATE.
Pass on the words ….. Private Freeparties, Don’t advertise publicly use your Private networks. Party Lines maybe ok if the number isn’t public.
This is not about making parties exclusive or scaremongring, this Law is being used against rigs and DJ’s. It’s not about breaking the PEL law but having some defence against it.
You have been warned.
Take care and be prepared.
Sticked because this is becoming an important distinction, pay attention (no pun)!
this comes from a couincil of elves so if you believe in the Faery take heed
otherwise find out for yourself.
1.Private parties do not need a license
2.Private means not done FOR the public.
3.If booze is seen to be sold almost everyone is guilty.
4.There is no size limit for a private party, the police can use SEC 63 for
that and I see no problem with there.
5.There is no boundary or fence needed for a private party, as long as it
falls within point 2.
6. Private means not advertising it on specialized (public) websites(I am
not sure this has been tested in law)but its being used as evidence
ha ha ha makes good sense to me
freeparties were always about not needing a license the problem is that because it was always hard to pin down Organizers of Freeparties for PEL violations, it has been forgoten why they were so named and why the Police were given Sec 63, which can only be served if you dont have a PEL.
The word Freeparty has taken up the cause of Freedom and that has been confuzed with Public.
Because now Rigs and DJ’s can be liable to PEL we have to make a clear distinction that our parties are Private.
please pass this information on to any party people you know by word of mouth, by email. phone whatever the word needs to go out Private Freeparties. Not FOR the Public.
or text message ie: please pass this message on to freeparty people only.
Freepartys are private, do not advertise it publicly unless you have a license.
surely if we close our doors to new people, then the scene is fucked and the pigs have won?
i’m sure that there are ways of merely blagging in court that your party was private, say that any flyers were invitations and that any advertising on the net was nowt to do with you.
we need to keep doin public events because the public need these events. if we start just doin them for mates then they become pointless and cliquey in my eyes.
i appreciate the legal advice, but what you are suggesting seems a bit subservient to me.
i’m sure that there are ways of merely blagging in court that your party was private, say that any flyers were invitations and that any advertising on the net was nowt to do with you.
we need to keep doin public events because the public need these events. if we start just doin them for mates then they become pointless and cliquey in my eyes.
i appreciate the legal advice, but what you are suggesting seems a bit subservient to me.
USE you’ve got the wrong end of the stick
all free parties are and always have been private events
we don’t use what would be considered ‘publicity’
if you asked the average joe in the street how to get a ticket for glastonbury they could give you a good answer. that’s because it’s is a public event. it is open to anyone who can read an advert in a magazine or listen to a radio.
If you then asked how to get to a free partyu they would prolly not know. That’s because people are invited through networks of friends. It is a private party.
It is important that people realise this distinction
i don’t think elraveon is talking about ending free parties, just about understanding how the law views different activities
while the parties have never been pubicised a huge ammount, we knocked up a load of flyers with just some ganj and our name and number on for people to hand out to people they trusted. we distributed them, but so did freinds and freinds of freinds. i dont think that you should be trying to exclude anyone who wants to come. we have had townies that we wouldnt have invited, fourteen year olds and secordary school teachers.
i really dislike the idea that the partties are private, that doesn’t sound very free to me. if they weren’t public events, i wouldn’t do ’em. the whole point is to get people who wouldn’t normally be together to socialise. the sort of partties where the same group of people turn up are shit. theyre full of judgemental cocks like you get on squatjuice saying theyre more hardcore than the nextman, when they’re the least hardcore ever, just standing around moaning and complaining that people are dancing near them.
to my mind free parties are community events. if they are on public land they are public events. if they “always have been private” then maybe i put on “freer parties”.
i don’t think you’re grasping the legal definitions of what the law deems to be public / private because you’re mixing the words up with their everyday uses
no-one is suggesting that we exclude people
and having a party on common or public land doesn’t make it a public event in the eyes of the law.
i understand that what we are talking about is how to blag free parties to babylon, but i just thought i’d make the destinction between real life and the law…sorry if that has confused the issue. obviously if the OB ask you if the party is public you deny it, but elraveon seemed to be suggesting we change the way the parties are run, which should not happen.
surely we want jo public to know where the raves are, and to feel comfortable to come if he wants? we want to include as many new people as possible, and open their minds that what we are doing is good.
obviously you should lie to the police, it would be rude not to, but remember thats all they are, lies. dont really have to do them.
have i still got the wrong end of the stick? if there is something being said that i’m missing, fill me in.
[obviously stuff like litter picks and first aid should be doen in real life, as it is actually a good idea]
hi use I have followed you posts on SJ and we are much alike you and I in many of our views, so I was eager to see what you have to say but I was very surprised with what you have just said. In addition, I hope for all our sakes that we can convince you otherwise.
I value freedom as much if not more than most. I wonder if when you see a policeman to you put your spliff or your e’s(example) outa sight, or do you profess your right to FREEDOM and do it publicly and wave the bag in his face.
Its not a question of being exclusive, if you knew me you would know that is not what I am about, neither am I about keeping parties small or single riggers. I would suggest that later this reply and with you permission your last replys deleted and I will explain why in a bit.
If you continue to advertise publicly, and when interviewed or others when interviewed announce to one and all that the party is public, how are you going to defend against a summons that you partied without a Public Entertainments License. Over the last year or so several individual rigs have pleaded or been found guilty of PEL violations because now they(rig Owners) are liable along with Organizers who are flighty but rigs are not, which is why they have been included now as liable.
Recently 10 rigs have pleaded guilty on the evidence of advertising publicly and people saying it was a public event. There are some people with a lot of influence with the police and councils and they are actively campaigning to stop parties. And it is likely that they can see that they are on a winner unless we for the time being get our ship sea worthy.
I haven’t said you cant give out flyers or invite new people you just cant be seen to do it so openly, I have tried to show you by example where you don’t give up your freedom to do something but to continue you have to be deceptive.
If you go to a multi rigger with your rig and advertise it publicly, and someone you or your crew tell the OB that it is a public event, they can and I think will now pass that on to the local authority and you and everyone else will be dragged into court.
Your actions could lead to the end of freeparties faster than anything in fact I think your replies so far could be used evidence against us.
We need to keep Freeparties underground at least for all intents and purposes.
Do not confuse Freedom with the public. A very large proportion of the public do not want to be free and are not free in any sense of the word as I see it.
the OB or the likes may read all of this and what you say, we have to becareful what we say openly and somethings need to be kept private.
nah, i recon when it comes to court these things are well hard to prove. for example how could anyone conculsively prove that the flyers or posters have anything to do with you? in the same way that graff writers need to be caught redhanded, so do publicists. i could quite easily blag that someone else used my account, or even that i have nothing to do with this site, or the internet.
my point was that you can say anything you like, you dont need to actually do it. i would love to be arrested in relation to freeparties, i would make a massive media circus, no problem, and even if i went down it would be way worth it.
i know i am not very cautious on the net, but i have always been totally open to the police. they know i help run the sound system, the local pigs know my name and face, and i know theirs. they know i’m too clever for them. i think everyone is far too paranoid and i am deliberately open just to prove it can be done.
as for the weed thing, i was stopped for weed in bristol a while ago, and when the copper told me, i emptied all my pockets one at a time saying “there you go keys, baccy, wallet, ganja….” as i gave it to him and he gave me my weed back, sayin “as far as i’m concerned this is tobbacco”. so yes, i beleive in being frank about how i live my life. once they have something on me, its lie-your-face-off time.
last year i was specifically asked if our event had been posted on a public website (as aopposed to a members only forum)
if I had that would have put the event into the public domain, thus breaking the PEL legislation, thus giving the council legal right to fuck me
I agreee with you about being up fromt and as honest as possible with anybody, uniform or no
but this is about being able to continue to have free parties which have always been by invitation by word of mouth within quite particular groups of people
hi Use
Things have changed PEL was hard to prove, which was why things have changed and you would do well to re-read everything with an open mind and without all your pre-conceptions.
They don’t need to prove you had anything to do with flyers or whether you posted on the net.
They do not have to find the organizers anymore because they have made the entertainment liable, they do not have to prove you organized the event.
First lets be clear the courts and the legal system and the Judges are biased, you would do well not to underestimate those who to some extent are above the law or mistake what the law and who the police force is there to protect, do not underestimate their influence on the council or the legal system.
What you seem to be missing is you are very likely now to get your day in court and what you should consider is why ten rigs, some of which were very experienced pleaded guilty. I can tell you that it was because of the evidence against them. Thankfully, they pleaded guilty and it was not tested and a president has not been made, we now have a chance to plug some holes so whoever next finds themselves summonsed will feel they have a chance to fight it.
They were also advised because some people had already pleaded guilty and that that would of made it even harder to fight their case, so perhaps you see the need to get all rigs pleading not guilty and with a good defense we have a chance to change the winds direction. Set the right president and make a council think twice before they try it again in a hurry. This is a case that we need to win, losing isn’t an option if you want to continue.
this is scary
i know i am not very cautious on the net, but i have always been totally open to the police. they know i help run the sound system, the local pigs know my name and face, and i know theirs. they know i’m too clever for them. i think everyone is far too paranoid and i am deliberately open just to prove it can be done.
Foolish words.
Its good for you that you hide behind the name use because your remarks about public parties could be used as evidence against you, however they could be used against us all unless you delete them IMO. If you want to do parties for the public then it is only right that you get a license and insurance to cover a public event, have the amenities of toilets, health and safety.
this is what i’m sayin’. we dont need to change what we are doing, just the way we talk about it. the original post seemed to me to be condoning the isolation of freeparties, but i see that you are talking about the same thing as me, that is, the blag. i appreciate what you’re sayin’, i think that you were sayin it in an ambiguous way.
i seriously doubt that the ten have top notch legal representation if they are pleading guilty. but i know next to nothing about the case. is there any links to info?
also do you have links to info on the new pel laws and explain what you mean by “theyve made the entertainment liable” i still dont see how they can directly link anyone to the entertainment.
i feel like we’ve been talking different languages, sorry bout that.
i feel like we’ve been talking different languages, sorry bout that.
faery nuff, its important you understand IMO and if I was unclear I am sorry its not easy because I have to consider what is writen may be read by those who want to see an end to freeparties
this is what i’m sayin’. we dont need to change what we are doing, just the way we talk about it. the original post seemed to me to be condoning the isolation of freeparties, but i see that you are talking about the same thing as me, that is, the blag. i appreciate what you’re sayin’, i think that you were sayin it in an ambiguous way.
I don’t know where you got exclusive, or condoning the isolation of freeparties.
We attract people in various ways, one of which is to talk about it with friends and people on the net forums after the party. tbh most people don’t get to freeparties from public announcement posting on the net, we have a good network of private networks we can and have to use them.
Its not a blag it has to be a private party. Don’t get bogged down on private, we just need to stop advertising it publicly and saying its for the public if we want a chance to fight it, if you get a summons. We don’t really have a choice.
If a party is for the public then you need a license, insurance, if it’s a large event you need amenities and lets not forget health and safety to not have all this in place would be indefensible in law IMO and possibly irresponsible.
i seriously doubt that the ten have top notch legal representation if they are pleading guilty. but i know next to nothing about the case. is there any links to info?
Now I know more about the Law add that with evidence I hear they have against them, I think any brief would have a hard job convincing a judge. No doubt they had the best they could get.
also do you have links to info on the new pel laws and explain what you mean by “theyve made the entertainment liable”
Do a google search what I did is read the relevant parts of the act and interpret it and put it down plain and simple what we need to do.
i still dont see how they can directly link anyone to the entertainment.
If a freeparty is advertised publicly it is a public party and needs a public entertainments license by Law. Now the owners of the rigs that supply that entertainment are liable, in fact its all the equipment and the people that play the music. The only defence is its private
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