I think it’s important we don’t lose the momentum and anger which was created after the initial events. This should remain in the spotlight because although the incidents were not unusual, they were of such a large-scale and were widely reported in the mainstream media, thus making them a possible catalyst for actual change and progression.
I’ll have a search in a few minutes – basically any updates anybody hears about or even any interesting material relating to police handling, get it posted!
I know at the brighton events recently they were yet again accused of covering up their ID numbers etc but how accurate that is I couldnt be certain.
I find it hard to believe anything possitive will happen, just more stuff brushed under the carpet. The IPCC will make recomendations, the CPS will says theres no evidence, everyone gets a payrise.
I find it hard to believe anything possitive will happen, just more stuff brushed under the carpet. The IPCC will make recomendations, the CPS will says theres no evidence, everyone gets a payrise.
The IPCC (who unfortunately have already been accused of corruption) will not do anything unless it remains in the media spotlight.
The incident would have been swept under the carpet entirely (remember the tabloids reported it a heart attack, cited the police claiming they had not had contact with Ian Thomlinson) until videos were sent to the mainstream media, thus forcing the Met to retract their bullshit cover-up story and promise an inquiry.
As much as the radical left hate the media, it is a free media, and whilst this has many downfalls as it tends to become dominated by populist opinions, it’s something we will have to utilise.
Unlike many other things the left believe in, there can be a lot of empathy from people about the way the police act because it is a universal issue – police abusing their power isn’t limited to protests.
Keep it publicised, keep it in the spotlight, and avoid them being able to sweep it under the carpet.
IPCC (Crisis at police watchdog as lawyers resign | Politics | The Guardian)
Problems with the IPCC..
· A failure to provide effective oversight for the work of the police investigators who still handle most complaints;
· a pattern of favouritism towards the police with some complaints being rejected in spite of apparently powerful evidence in their support;
· cases of indifference and rudeness towards complainants;
· extreme delays, with some complaints remaining unresolved after years of inaction and confusion;
· key decisions being taken by casework managers who have no legal qualifications, little relevant experience and minimal training;
· investigators and senior commissioners failing to work effectively with the result that some decisions have had to be overturned with the threat of court action
oh great. Just when you think things cant get any worse.
I just have no faith that will be anywhere near enough. I dont believe things will change for the better. Hope im wrong
although this might sound like conspiracy theory I am a former Civil Servant and know a fair bit about how things work from the inside.
I know it would be trivial for a combination of ex-coppers and pro-police/authoritarian right wing anti public sector types provided they have academic qualifications to get past selection processes to infiltrate a organisation such as the IPCC and essentially get themselves paid to undermine it..
another issue is Whitehall is a nice earner for a young ambitious graduate. Many people will do anything to hold on to a whitehall job and citizens come second.
People see no immediate change are therefore become apathetic and pessimistic. Change happens over huge periods of time, and I believe in certain aspects of change happening years after I’m gone. However the progression that leads to this change needs people with hope striving towards it, and even if they don’t see the eventual results, they’ve served as a stepping stone.
Any major progression in history didn’t happen overnight. There were people fighting to change peoples opinions about slavery for hundreds of years before there was real change, and it started to become a widely helf belief that slavery was wrong instead of vice-versa.
I’m sure a lot of the activists in the first years of the movement became apathetic and gave up, but obviously some didn’t.
even the fact the IPCC ever exists and that cops have to do things like fill in stop and search forms and that they no longer always stop you for being non-white in a public place or just for being young is progress, compared to 20-30 years ago.
that said I still don’t think there’s much empathy from normal people. Most normal people what don’t party or take drugs or protest only either have dealings with the cops if they break traffic laws, or are themselves a victim of crime. In the first case they often want cops to let them walk away even when they have driven in a dangerous manner – in the second they are often annoyed because cops can’t catch everyone instantly of if they know who the offenders are, because they cannot take vigilanté action against them without getting nicked themselves.
Could be true, obviously I’ve only ever really lived up here, where it’s different. We had the miner’s strikes, and general support for miners and police tactics that were used are still remembered. I’m reading the Politics of the Police (relating to police and discrimination, for my Uni course) and it attributes the Northern working class strikes as one of the most important events for changing opinions on the police, obviously predominantly up North.
Any working class area up here won’t trust police for shit, whether it’s your 20 year old or 80 year old.
Any major progression in history didn’t happen overnight. There were people fighting to change peoples opinions about slavery for hundreds of years before there was real change, and it started to become a widely helf belief that slavery was wrong instead of vice-versa.
I’m sure a lot of the activists in the first years of the movement became apathetic and gave up, but obviously some didn’t.
I hope your right, perhaps things will change for the better over time.
Anyone know of any countrys that are any better? *fingers crossed*
this is true down south too, but the impression I get, particularly the snippets of life in Sheffield that people mention here is that all across England the traditional working class are being slowly eliminated along with the manufacturing industry and being made into a new “middle class”.
there are as many “urban working class” areas down South as up North with the same problems as well as middle class people here what have been kicked off the ladder due to professional jobs going either to foreign nations or the North
for example I got a fax today from a large organisation where although we were dealing with lower paid admin staff in Suffolk, their finance department has been outsourced to Yorkshire.
What remains of the angry young men seems to either becomes a criminal underclass who destroy any empathy from their own communities by their own acts; and thus they either want “hard men” from the community to eliminate the scum or even reluctantly support cops doing so, particularly those Northerners what have done relatively well in life and worked their way up.
A few years back I worked with a old chap (well 50s), he was originally working class but went to uni, got jobs int he BBC and granada as an engineer – lived somewhere outside Manchester.
He told me about how GMP as recently as 2001 would willingly give a good kicking to scallies because the “laws were too PC” – he was 100% supportive and just wished he was fit and strong enough to join in, and that its a shame guns aren’t allowed for normal people. He’s not by far the only Northerner I’ve met with views like this.
A while back I also read a report many youngish men in pit areas were applying for the Police despite the history, as they sort of admired the hard man mentality in northern constabularies and reluctantly felt “well the miners put up a fair fight and lost, so maybe we should go for the winnign side”.
no. some countries may seem “freer” but they have their own internal problems as well. in those countries what “stand up for themselves” they have armed constabularies and gendarmeries and also the opponents fight harder so activism can be lethal.
as an example there were lorry drivers strikes last year. In England, there was a small demo, a lot of cops but no real violence and the management backed down and gave a pay rise!
In Spain and Portugal, the scabs actually drove their lorries into the pickets and two people were killed (one in each country). Of course the scabs would have been nicked for this but all thats happened is two families will now lose people they love (one dead, another to prison) and this sort of thing is the cause of feuds lasting generations.
When people protest in foreign nations, its often routine for water cannon, baton rounds and even live rounds to be used as well as the same things British cops do.
Also, running away from our nation (assuming of course you are born here) is not the answer to the problems as it means that the authoritarians win. There are already rich white British born people emigrating from England to authoritarian nations and taking their money and resources with them because “England is too PC and lax on drugs, sex, morality etc…”
as an example there were lorry drivers strikes last year. In England, there was a small demo, a lot of cops but no real violence and the management backed down and gave a pay rise!
In Spain and Portugal, the scabs actually drove their lorries into the pickets and two people were killed (one in each country). Of course the scabs would have been nicked for this but all thats happened is two families will now lose people they love (one dead, another to prison) and this sort of thing is the cause of feuds lasting generations.
When people protest in foreign nations, its often routine for water cannon, baton rounds and even live rounds to be used as well as the same things British cops do.
Also, running away from our nation (assuming of course you are born here) is not the answer to the problems as it means that the authoritarians win. There are already rich white British born people emigrating from England to authoritarian nations and taking their money and resources with them because “England is too PC and lax on drugs, sex, morality etc…”
Hmm, as I feard really. I think my first house will be an underground bunker where I can get the hell away from society.
Very true. It’s the classic divide and conquer tactic that was Thatcher all over. You’re right about many becoming a new “middle class”, however the few left behind are now more socially excluded than ever. This is a direct result of Thatcherism and applies nationwide. There is also no common goal for the working class… whereas socialism and economic equality as a principle was fought for, after the battle was lost, all that’s left is a complete apathy and frustration directed at nobody, thus causing crime within the local community itself, “leave them to destroy themselves” type thing. Unfortunately the BNP have been extremely opporunist and sly in that they have capitalised on the frustration and anger and directed it against immigrants rather than against capitalism that has bred the class system in the first place.
Also on a side note, when I talk about “the North” all the time, it’s not because I’m trying to compete with other areas over who is more working class, more distrustful of the police etc. or anything, sometimes I realise it sounds like I’m trying to invalidate an argument – I’m not at all, the only reason I use the North as an example is because I’m ignorant about anywhere else, I’ve only ever lived here and around people from the North and somethings such as attitudes and general opinions you can’t read up on Wikipedia…
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