@DaftFader 419815 wrote:
HGH is also releaced when you do excersize properly and I’d much rather do that everyday then GHB. I know some one who used to work treating addicts and it’s a horrible horrible thing to get hooked on – much worce withdrawrals then smack! That’s not some “rubbish I have read” either.
Alot of drugs effect either seratonin or dopamine levels in the body – it’s how they effect our mood like they do.
I’m also at the best mental and psysicle health of my life since I was at school and it’s got nothing to do with any drugs – more so that I’ve actualy stopped doing them most of the time and actualy knuckled down and done some excersize.
Don’t get me wrong, fair enough if it’s helped you out. Certain drugs have helped me out in the past with diferant things. It’s not a long term solution tho imo. You have to get to the root of the problem to fix anything.
The problem that we have here is that you keep referring to GHB as a drug and it is not a drug. GHB is a nutrient. Before clubbers found it and ruined it for everyone, GHB was sold in health food shops. Cocaine affects dopamine levels and gives you energy and makes you feel good. I would not recommend taking it because it is a drug and it is very dangerous. GHB, on the other hand, can be taken every day and you will suffer no ill effects. The people that get into trouble are the ones that decide to take it 24/7. Taking GHB at night has zero risk of addiction and withdrawal.
GHB is a drug, don’t be deluded.
drug (drg)
n.
1.
a. A substance used in the diagnosis, treatment, or prevention of a disease or as a component of a medication.
b. Such a substance as recognized or defined by the U.S. Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act.
2. A chemical substance, such as a narcotic or hallucinogen, that affects the central nervous system, causing changes in behavior and often addiction.
GHB fit’s all three of these definitions. Caffine is sold in loads of shops and is a drug, so is alcohol and parasetamol! Just because they are sold in shop’s does not make them healthy/safe to take every day. Just like McDonalds is sold in a “shop” and is fucking horrible for your health espcialy if eaten everyday.
You only have to google GHB to find loads and loads of stories (written by the people them selves on forums – not news articles) of people having withdrawral syptoms from everyday use. In the last few minits I found at least 2 stories of people who only dose a few ml. a day to sleep and started getting withdrawals after stopping taking it only after a few weeks!
I’m not saing it can’t be used with out addiction, as I know it could be. You say coke’s bad (it is) but I’ve used it before and am not addicted. However if I was to of taken it everyday, then the story would of been diferent I’m sure.
@fr0gman 419868 wrote:
The problem that we have here is that you keep referring to GHB as a drug and it is not a drug. GHB is a nutrient. Before clubbers found it and ruined it for everyone, GHB was sold in health food shops. Cocaine affects dopamine levels and gives you energy and makes you feel good. I would not recommend taking it because it is a drug and it is very dangerous. GHB, on the other hand, can be taken every day and you will suffer no ill effects. The people that get into trouble are the ones that decide to take it 24/7. Taking GHB at night has zero risk of addiction and withdrawal.
:laugh_at::laugh_at::laugh_at:
This guy fails!!
Did you know N,N-Dimethyltryptamine isn’t actually a drug it’s a ‘gate’.
A gate to other dimensions! :bounce_fl
@DaftFader 419882 wrote:
GHB is a drug, don’t be deluded.
GHB fit’s all three of these definitions. Caffine is sold in loads of shops and is a drug, so is alcohol and parasetamol! Just because they are sold in shop’s does not make them healthy/safe to take every day. Just like McDonalds is sold in a “shop” and is fucking horrible for your health espcialy if eaten everyday.You only have to google GHB to find loads and loads of stories (written by the people them selves on forums – not news articles) of people having withdrawral syptoms from everyday use. In the last few minits I found at least 2 stories of people who only dose a few ml. a day to sleep and started getting withdrawals after stopping taking it only after a few weeks!
I’m not saing it can’t be used with out addiction, as I know it could be. You say coke’s bad (it is) but I’ve used it before and am not addicted. However if I was to of taken it everyday, then the story would of been diferent I’m sure.
There is a really good book that you should read. The title is:
GHB: The Natural Mood Enhancer
If, after reading this book, you still feel that GHB is bad or dangerous then there is not much left that I can do.
Used properly, GHB is an amazingly effective and healthful substance. People who abuse it and get addicted are the same lot as get addicted to alcohol: weak of mind and resolution.
Ghb alone and in right measurement is quite ok…but mixed with alcohol or overdosage make it a killer….and that is a fact you have to take in concideration when you talk about ghb, its often used in party settings, and at parties its a good chance it will be served alcohol… and ghb have taken many a young life because of this…
I’m fully aware the GHB is a naturaly occoring substance in the body. However it’s highly unatural for someone to be taking a lab synthersized version of it it oraly.
Now I fear I’ve come across as a hypocrite as I take recriational drugs from time to time. I fully belive some drugs can be used as a benificial thing for peoples health even some illigal ones. As long as they are not used regularly and not abused. I just belive people have a right to know the truth about them.
you saing GHB is perfectly safe and non addictive is simply misguiding people to think it’s 100% safe like eating a bowl of cornflakes is. Telling people that is no diferant from the govenment telling people it’ll kill you if you happen to be with in 100 meters of any illigal drug.
The fact is not every one who uses GHB will be of strong mind and may have a dispossition to abuse substances if they take them … so people should be made aware of something with as an addictive quality that GHB has, people need to be told.
Denying that there are these factors to it is much the same as pot smokers who chat all this shit about it being 100% safe just cos they are part of the “legalize weed” brigade. Fair enough it’s not as dangerous as alot of drugs (but then you’re not taking THC in it’s pure form – but that’s another debate almost) but there still are risks people need to be made aware about imo. I’ve know of over 10 people personaly that have had problems from smoking weed … probably even more then that.
@DaftFader 419976 wrote:
you saing GHB is perfectly safe and non addictive is simply misguiding people to think it’s 100% safe like eating a bowl of cornflakes is. Telling people that is no diferant from the govenment telling people it’ll kill you if you happen to be with in 100 meters of any illigal drug.
No, I said “When used properly…” Water is toxic in large enough doses. We rely on oxygen for survival but 100% pure oxygen will kill you.
The only real difference between medicine and poison is the dose….and intent.
- Oscar G. Hernandez, MD
If one intends to use GHB for the right reasons and in the right amounts then it is perfectly safe and non-addictive. If, on the other hand, some idiot decides to go to a party and take GHB and then drink 7 pints of cider – then that person deserves any poor outcome that may befall him. Same for the tosser that decides to take 3 ml of GHB every 3 hours for the next 6 months. These people are weak links in society and to be brutally honest deserve to die, with hopes that they do before they pass this genetic propensity for poor decision making along to the next generation.
What is tragic is the fact that the small number of mentally under developed people who created a situation where they lost their lives and GHB was involved really screwed it for the larger number of people who were using it responsibly and for all the right reasons, but that is how our polite society works. Punish the many for the sins of the few.
@fr0gman 420043 wrote:
These people are weak links in society and to be brutally honest deserve to die, with hopes that they do before they pass this genetic propensity for poor decision making along to the next generation.
Your sounding a bit like Hittler there! :hopeless:
@fr0gman 420043 wrote:
What is tragic is the fact that the small number of mentally under developed people who created a situation where they lost their lives and GHB was involved really screwed it for the larger number of people who were using it responsibly and for all the right reasons, but that is how our polite society works. Punish the many for the sins of the few.
Alltho some people do over do it, it’s hardly got anything to do with genetics, and TBH if you’re going down that road, then you need to factor in the fact that your sleeping disorder/ex-weight problem may be genetical too. Do you allso deserve to die before you pass that genetic propensity to the next generation. No, no one does. That’s a shitty attitude to take on any matter I.M.O.
Also by saing all this you’ve contradicted your self with regards to cocaine, as before you were saing…
@fr0gman 420043 wrote:
Cocaine affects dopamine levels and gives you energy and makes you feel good. I would not recommend taking it because it is a drug and it is very dangerous. GHB, on the other hand, can be taken every day and you will suffer no ill effects.
but now you’re quoting…
@fr0gman 420043 wrote:
The only real difference between medicine and poison is the dose….and intent.
- Oscar G. Hernandez, MD
The actuality of it is; Alltho some things can be very safe to take in a small amount, they can be very dangerous in larger amounts. Take heroin as an example:-
It hardly does any damage to your body alone even with non-excessive prolonged use (unless you’re distroying your veigns/or injecting dirty gear – but that’s not the heroin it’s self doing the damage and there are other ways of taking it). The problems start arising when people get addicted. Now this isn’t some genetic trait like you seem to think, otherwise people would never be able to quit drugs as it would be in there genes to carry on taking the drugs. Would you advicate heroin use, as it helps alot of people get through dificalt times?
I personaly wouldn’t alltho I’ve no problems with someone trying it, I even have my self a few times and been totaly fine, but we all know where it can lead. Even the strongest of willed people get hooked on it if they don’t respect it in the right way.
All I’m saing is that alltho you clearly respect GHB. Other people with no knolage of it’s abuse potential may read what you’re saing about how wonderfull it is when they really need to understand that it’s not all roses and needs to be respected, as not just a miracle cure but also as a drug and something that’s potentially very addictive.
Honesty must cover both sides of the story otherwise it’s bias!
Frogman you are really stupid if you honestly believe GHB is some sort of miracle drug, people don’t deserve to OD and die for fuck sakes. I know so many people who’ve ODed and had an awful time because of it. The getting high dose is so close to the OD dose that it’s NOT A SAFE SUBSTANCE. I don’t need a pro GHB book to brainwash me into thinking, WOW GHB IS AMAZING AND SAFE because i’d be wrong.
Yeah i’ve read that it gets you into deep sleep 4 times quicker or something close which is pretty amazing as it takes 4 hours to get there and it’d help with sleep a lot.
Then i’ve read countless stories of people who can’t sleep for 5 days because they’re addicted, your posts are the complete opposite of harm reduction. You think you’re doing good for GHB praising it but i honestly think your stupid biased posts and doing the opposite.
@p0ly 420058 wrote:
Frogman you are really stupid if you honestly believe GHB is some sort of miracle drug, people don’t deserve to OD and die for fuck sakes. I know so many people who’ve ODed and had an awful time because of it. The getting high dose is so close to the OD dose that it’s NOT A SAFE SUBSTANCE. I don’t need a pro GHB book to brainwash me into thinking, WOW GHB IS AMAZING AND SAFE because i’d be wrong.
Yeah i’ve read that it gets you into deep sleep 4 times quicker or something close which is pretty amazing as it takes 4 hours to get there and it’d help with sleep a lot.
Then i’ve read countless stories of people who can’t sleep for 5 days because they’re addicted, your posts are the complete opposite of harm reduction. You think you’re doing good for GHB praising it but i honestly think your stupid biased posts and doing the opposite.
There is no lethal dose of GHB alone. GHB has this amazing built in safety measure. In high doses it makes you vomit thereby eliminating the excess GHB. People who die do not die from taking GHB they die from taking GHB alongside another CNS depressant, i.e., alcohol.
We are comparing apple to oranges. I am talking about taking GHB therapeutically and you are talking about taking it to get high. There is a huge difference. Abuse in any form is BAD – plain and simple.
It pisses me off when people attempt to malign something because a handful of people abused it and got into trouble.
Just out of curiosity, what do you think the “getting high” dose is and what is the “OD dose”?
@fr0gman 420187 wrote:
There is no lethal dose of GHB alone.
Mate, I really didn’t want to say this before, but [EDIT] I’m affraid you’ve been missinformed.
For a start … and I quote AGAIN …
Originally posted by fr0gman View Post
The only real difference between medicine and poison is the dose….and intent.* Oscar G. Hernandez, MD
For a prescription mix of liqued GHB you are talking a ratio of some where in the regen of 2.5g GHB to 5ml of distilled water (yes it’s a highly dilutable substance!). Xyrem for example is an Rx version of GHB in the US and is diluted at 500mg per ml. Street GHB I’ve heard can be 1.6g+ of GHB per ml.
People can overdose and die roughly 50% of the time (LD50) from as little as 1g per Kg. That’s about a dose of 160ml for a slightly larger then average estimation of the weight of a human (80Kg), assuming it’s a pharmacy mix of GHB from the above mentioned brand. GHB that you get on the street varies alot. You’ve no garentee it’ll not be a much stronger g/ml mix when dosing, meaning a lower OD ml dose. Using the example I gave of a 1.6g per ml (lets say 1.5g so I can do the math easyer) that’s aproximatly <53mg (?) of strong street GHB for a fatal reaction in 50% of cases.
That’s worce case total death from purely taking just GHB with no other complications like choking on vomit etc. Not forgeting that other things that may happen when you take an OD dose that’s less then the LD50 which arn’t perticulaly plesant I’m sure. Coma keeps croping up in the medical test reports I’ve been reading, respatary problems and heart failer are to name a few more!
The fact that you say a safty mechanism is that you vomit if you take to much GHB is FAR FAR FAR off from a safe thing! What if you’ve allready and passed out (and that’s really not an uncommon occurance with GHB)? Going back to my comparison to Dimorphine/Heroin, alot of death cases are from vomiting whilst asleep. Fuck, it allmost happened to me once, when I’ve only taken it mby no more then 15 times in the last 3-4 years from when I first tried it!
@fr0gman 420187 wrote:
There is no lethal dose of GHB alone. GHB has this amazing built in safety measure. In high doses it makes you vomit thereby eliminating the excess GHB. People who die do not die from taking GHB they die from taking GHB alongside another CNS depressant, i.e., alcohol.
We are comparing apple to oranges. I am talking about taking GHB therapeutically and you are talking about taking it to get high. There is a huge difference. Abuse in any form is BAD – plain and simple.
It pisses me off when people attempt to malign something because a handful of people abused it and got into trouble.
Just out of curiosity, what do you think the “getting high” dose is and what is the “OD dose”?
I like GHB I think it’s alright, a bit dirty.
The fact is it is dangerous whether your biased mind will ever accept this or not.
To be honest there’s no point in talking to you because you seem scarily obsessed with this stuff, i bet you use it for lube when you wank.
@DaftFader 420189 wrote:
Mate, I really didn’t want to say this before, but [EDIT] I’m affraid you’ve been missinformed.
For a start … and I quote AGAIN …
For a prescription mix of liqued GHB you are talking a ratio of some where in the regen of 2.5g GHB to 5ml of distilled water (yes it’s a highly dilutable substance!). Xyrem for example is an Rx version of GHB in the US and is diluted at 500mg per ml. Street GHB I’ve heard can be 1.6g+ of GHB per ml.
People can overdose and die roughly 50% of the time (LD50) from as little as 1g per Kg. That’s about a dose of 160ml for a slightly larger then average estimation of the weight of a human (80Kg), assuming it’s a pharmacy mix of GHB from the above mentioned brand. GHB that you get on the street varies alot. You’ve no garentee it’ll not be a much stronger g/ml mix when dosing, meaning a lower OD ml dose. Using the example I gave of a 1.6g per ml (lets say 1.5g so I can do the math easyer) that’s aproximatly <53mg (?) of strong street GHB for a fatal reaction in 50% of cases.
That’s worce case total death from purely taking just GHB with no other complications like choking on vomit etc. Not forgeting that other things that may happen when you take an OD dose that’s less then the LD50 which arn’t perticulaly plesant I’m sure. Coma keeps croping up in the medical test reports I’ve been reading, respatary problems and heart failer are to name a few more!
The fact that you say a safty mechanism is that you vomit if you take to much GHB is FAR FAR FAR off from a safe thing! What if you’ve allready and passed out (and that’s really not an uncommon occurance with GHB)? Going back to my comparison to Dimorphine/Heroin, alot of death cases are from vomiting whilst asleep. Fuck, it allmost happened to me once, when I’ve only taken it mby no more then 15 times in the last 3-4 years from when I first tried it!
That all sounded so good, but it is total rubbish. You need to take a crash course in organic chemistry. You may have “heard that street GHB can be 1.6g+ of GHB per ml” but that is simply impossible. The solubility of NaGHB in pure water is 500mg per ml. Street GHB diluted with water containing impurities would be less because the water already contains dissolved solids. Your 1.6 g per ml sounds good but it does not hol water, no pun intended.
Another thing you failed to report correctly is the LD50 Dose. Here is the correct data:
Reported lethality (from respiratory depression) in the rat ranges from an LD50 of 1700 mg/kg (intraperitoneal injection) to 9990 mg/kg (oral).
You said 1g per kg. In reality that is 1.7g per kg INJECTED. Oral doses are 9.9g per kg. That means that in order to have a 50/50 shot at dying I would have to consume .72 kilos of GHB. Come on! That would be 1440 ml solution. Who in their right mind is going to drink a liter and a half of GHB? The answer is nobody. All of this is assuming that the LD50 for rats holds true for humans. It is much higher in dogs. Tests were performed on dogs at 900mg per kg and no deaths were reported.
Body weight loss and decreased weight gain occurred in the high-dose animals. The only other effect was atrophy of the mandibular salivary glands and the submucosal mucous glands of the esophagus at 350 and 600 mg/kg/day. No gender differences or changes due to repeated dosing were observed. The no-effect level in this study was 150 mg/kg/day (1.2 times the maximum human dose).
I challenge you to find one legitimate report of anyone dying from GHB alone. EVERY death that I have read about involve poly-drug ingestion.
Even if the LD50 of 1g per kg were accurate, I am ok with that level of risk because I take it in 4.5g doses. It would be totally impossible for me (or anyone else) to accidentally take 73 grams of GHB. It would certainly be impossible to take ~750 g which is the most likely human LD50 level.
@fr0gman 420261 wrote:
That all sounded so good, but it is total rubbish. You need to take a crash course in organic chemistry. You may have “heard that street GHB can be 1.6g+ of GHB per ml” but that is simply impossible. The solubility of NaGHB in pure water is 500mg per ml. Street GHB diluted with water containing impurities would be less because the water already contains dissolved solids. Your 1.6 g per ml sounds good but it does not hol water, no pun intended.
Another thing you failed to report correctly is the LD50 Dose. Here is the correct data:
You said 1g per kg. In reality that is 1.7g per kg INJECTED. Oral doses are 9.9g per kg. That means that in order to have a 50/50 shot at dying I would have to consume .72 kilos of GHB. Come on! That would be 1440 ml solution. Who in their right mind is going to drink a liter and a half of GHB? The answer is nobody. All of this is assuming that the LD50 for rats holds true for humans. It is much higher in dogs. Tests were performed on dogs at 900mg per kg and no deaths were reported.
I challenge you to find one legitimate report of anyone dying from GHB alone. EVERY death that I have read about involve poly-drug ingestion.
Even if the LD50 of 1g per kg were accurate, I am ok with that level of risk because I take it in 4.5g doses. It would be totally impossible for me (or anyone else) to accidentally take 73 grams of GHB. It would certainly be impossible to take ~750 g which is the most likely human LD50 level.
PCP, Meth, Heroin, Bromo-dragonfly etc etc etc If used very safely and in moderation are fine. The fact of the matter they are not safe drugs and nor is GHB.
Do you have any negative views about the stuff or are you in a GHB cult.
@fr0gman 420261 wrote:
That all sounded so good, but it is total rubbish. You need to take a crash course in organic chemistry. You may have “heard that street GHB can be 1.6g+ of GHB per ml” but that is simply impossible. The solubility of NaGHB in pure water is 500mg per ml. Street GHB diluted with water containing impurities would be less because the water already contains dissolved solids. Your 1.6 g per ml sounds good but it does not hol water, no pun intended.
Another thing you failed to report correctly is the LD50 Dose. Here is the correct data:
You said 1g per kg. In reality that is 1.7g per kg INJECTED. Oral doses are 9.9g per kg. That means that in order to have a 50/50 shot at dying I would have to consume .72 kilos of GHB. Come on! That would be 1440 ml solution. Who in their right mind is going to drink a liter and a half of GHB? The answer is nobody. All of this is assuming that the LD50 for rats holds true for humans. It is much higher in dogs. Tests were performed on dogs at 900mg per kg and no deaths were reported.
I challenge you to find one legitimate report of anyone dying from GHB alone. EVERY death that I have read about involve poly-drug ingestion.
Even if the LD50 of 1g per kg were accurate, I am ok with that level of risk because I take it in 4.5g doses. It would be totally impossible for me (or anyone else) to accidentally take 73 grams of GHB. It would certainly be impossible to take ~750 g which is the most likely human LD50 level.
LD50 is as low as 5/600mg/kg in guinipigs … I didn’t report that either. I’ve looked into it further and you’re quite right in saing it’s soluble upto about 0.5g per ml b4 it starts crystalizing. that’s still only 160 ml @ an LD50 of 1g.
here’s toxicology report of it in not just animals but oraly in humans too
*** CHEMICAL IDENTIFICATION ***
RTECS NUMBER : ET4750000
CHEMICAL NAME : Butyric acid, 4-hydroxy-, sodium salt
CAS REGISTRY NUMBER : 502-85-2
LAST UPDATED : 199701
DATA ITEMS CITED : 6
MOLECULAR FORMULA : C4-H7-O3.Na
MOLECULAR WEIGHT : 126.10
WISWESSER LINE NOTATION : Q3VO &-NA-
COMPOUND DESCRIPTOR : Drug
Reproductive Effector
Human
SYNONYMS/TRADE NAMES :
* Gamma OH
* 4-Hydroxybutyric acid sodium salt
* gamma-Hydroxybutyrate sodium salt
* Sodium gamma-hydroxybutyrate
* Sodium 4-hydroxybutyrate
* Sodium oxybate
* Somsanit
* WY-3478*** HEALTH HAZARD DATA ***
** ACUTE TOXICITY DATA **
TYPE OF TEST : TDLo – Lowest published toxic dose
ROUTE OF EXPOSURE : Oral
SPECIES OBSERVED : Human – man
DOSE/DURATION : 71 mg/kg
TOXIC EFFECTS :
Behavioral – hallucinations, distorted perceptions
Behavioral – coma
Gastrointestinal – nausea or vomiting
REFERENCE :
AJEMEN American Journal of Emergency Medicine. (WB Saunders, Philadelphia,
PA) V.1- 1983- Volume(issue)/page/year: 9,321,1991TYPE OF TEST : LD50 – Lethal dose, 50 percent kill
ROUTE OF EXPOSURE : Oral
SPECIES OBSERVED : Rodent – rat
DOSE/DURATION : 9690 mg/kg
TOXIC EFFECTS :
Details of toxic effects not reported other than lethal dose value
REFERENCE :
FATOAO Farmakologiya i Toksikologiya (Moscow). For English translation, see
PHTXA6 and RPTOAN. (V/O Mezhdunarodnaya Kniga, 113095 Moscow, USSR) V.2-
1939- Volume(issue)/page/year: 43,714,1980TYPE OF TEST : LD50 – Lethal dose, 50 percent kill
ROUTE OF EXPOSURE : Intraperitoneal
SPECIES OBSERVED : Rodent – rat
DOSE/DURATION : 1650 mg/kg
TOXIC EFFECTS :
Details of toxic effects not reported other than lethal dose value
REFERENCE :
THERAP Therapie. (Doin, Editeurs, 8, Place de l’Odeon, F-75006 Paris,
France) V.1- 1946- Volume(issue)/page/year: 32,375,1977TYPE OF TEST : LD50 – Lethal dose, 50 percent kill
ROUTE OF EXPOSURE : Intraperitoneal
SPECIES OBSERVED : Rodent – mouse
DOSE/DURATION : 3300 mg/kg
TOXIC EFFECTS :
Sense Organs and Special Senses (Eye) – effect, not otherwise specified
Behavioral – alteration of classical conditioning
Skin and Appendages – hair
REFERENCE :
JJPAAZ Japanese Journal of Pharmacology. (Japanese Pharmacological Soc.,
c/o Dept. of Pharmacology, Faculty of Medicine, Kyoto Univ., Sakyo-ku, Kyoto
606, Japan) V.1- 1951- Volume(issue)/page/year: 17,30,1967** REPRODUCTIVE DATA **
TYPE OF TEST : TDLo – Lowest published toxic dose
ROUTE OF EXPOSURE : Intravenous
SPECIES OBSERVED : Rodent – guinea pig
DOSE : 40 mg/kg
SEX/DURATION : female 68 day(s) after conception
TOXIC EFFECTS :
Reproductive – Effects on Newborn – other neonatal measures or effects
REFERENCE :
AJOGAH American Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology. (C.V. Mosby Co.,
11830 Westline Industrial Dr., St. Louis, MO 63146) V.1- 1920-
Volume(issue)/page/year: 100,72,1968*** STATUS IN U.S. ***
EPA TSCA Section 8(b) CHEMICAL INVENTORY
*** END OF RECORD ***
http://hazard.com/msds/tox/tf/q39/q172.html
The lowest recorded dose that’s become toxic in humans by oral administration is mearly
5.68 grams or 11ml! (for an average 80kg person)
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