anyway, we’re way off topic here, what we i satrted this thread to resolve, was not if we can get parties legalised (lets take it as a given , for the sake of arguement, that if enough people put their minds to it, anythings possible) but how.
now ive been writing to mps for a while, and they dont give a shit, and even if they did, the commons would shout em down and tony bollock surely wouldnt give two shits, because it has nowt to do with his holy war on non-christians (except it is a pagan tradition, so he prolly wants us all hung)
what needs to happen is that this site (which is steadiy growing in numbers) develops maybe an articles section, or the top posts or whatever published in print, and even gets its own show on cable, on thextreme channel maybe. we live in a media saturated society, and while the internet is growing, it needs to be fought on two fronts. i personally think a free party docu from our perspective would blow the lid on the rave scene, which i know people are scared of, but fuck that we ahve a right to dd what we do, and we can change societies rules to accept us.
its all about the media. now, with the number of people on here, we have a formidable crew (not to memtions the hundreds of rave organisers who arent repping, the burnt outs, drop outs and those turned to legit festies, and the thousands of ravers on side) if we could harness that, we could make a seriously entertaining and elightening expose of the free party community in a way which will gather us support. thsi support could help build a platform of freespeech, a public platform fro which we can fight our corner. we dont want to change the whole world (at least not at first) we want to be treated fairly, and we can do it with style and fun.
democracy is broken. the only true power lies in th emedia. if we harness that, we wont need to wake up every day and wonder if the pigs are following us, or if our pictures are in a file somehwere, waiting to be brought up in court when we get nicked by people who think that throwing a party is antisocial.
maybe we like being underground, maybe thats why a lot of people do raves. i dont. i help make raves happen, because i think if a group of mates want to use some public outdoor land to get a lot of people together to have a good time, appreciate nature and each other, well, they should be allowed so long as they go about it reasonably. it should not be illegal.
producing more video content is a good idea provided it cannot be used to identify individuals or groups who are committing illegal activities, or create further negative publicity.
There is already a precedent of the UKG/Grime lot making and selling DVDs of their own video productions. Most of them, as you would expect have a very violent and dystopian theme, they’ve got stuff like footage of people actually fighting at their clubs etc (not sure if it some of this actually be staged as surely people would have got nicked if it wasn’t!).
There’s also a trend of making live CDs to diss rivals; one of which resulted in the offended party shooting dead the MC!
OTOH this stuff is no better than the crap already shown on the idiot box anyway….
There is no reason why people cannot however do something more positive.
TBH videos of free parties aren’t that interesting for more than 20 minutes as the scenery is all the same anyway;
That still leaves a lot of scope for such things as music videos, visuals with DJ mixes and rolling message captions, documentaries on other subjects such as music / technology and the more serious stuff. If content was well-produced it could well be less controversial and more widely accepted than conventional TV as it wouldn’t thrive so much on negativity and the shock value!
I am noticing the attitude of normal people slowly chaning – OTOH beforew we can fight our corner we need to address the real problems like drug addiction, crime and violence that some people get sucked into after they burn out and prevent younger people making the same mistakes made in the 90s – which this site is doing.
The more positive aspects of rave culture can make it (despite the drugs) one of the safest and most diverse youth movements worldwide….
absolutely.
There’s also a trend of making live CDs to diss rivals; one of which resulted in the offended party shooting dead the MC!
OTOH this stuff is no better than the crap already shown on the idiot box anyway….
you’re right, theres no danger of me going down that route tho!
TBH videos of free parties aren’t that interesting for more than 20 minutes as the scenery is all the same anyway;
ahh, as with all video/film, its all about the editing.
yerp, good points, im stilll making the trasition from printmaker to video artist, so its a work in progress, not only that but theres a lot more party footage that i’d like to get my hands on (hint, hint :bigsmile: lol)
The more positive aspects of rave culture can make it (despite the drugs) one of the safest and most diverse youth movements worldwide….
its all about focussing on the positive. it may seem bias, but if you inspire people to put on better organised events, i really beleive they will (my im feeling optimistic today, could have something to do with kayaking thru a flooded forest earlier on, or it could be the good food im eating, or it mught be devang and his optimism- oh, going on about myself again, what a suprise!)
anyway, im on it, if anyone wants to get involved, drop me a pm.
what we i satrted this thread to resolve, was not if we can get parties legalised but how.
partys are NOT ILLEGAL
what is it you want tha is different than what we have?
Parties are not illegal, parties done for the public are not illegal either you just need a license, a procedure which covers public safety and tbh rightly so.
I think your asking the wrong question but I would like to get it clear what you are talking about because I do not see that they have made parties illegal otherwise it wouldnât take the decision of a senior police officer to decide that.
parties arent illegal but the licenses that cover them are pretty daunting; i know i have applied for one
a little less red tape would be nice but i can see the point of view of most of the info required for the licence
all that paperwork makes legal parties very expensive what with insurance, etc – kind of puts folks off organising them?:hiding:
:mobile_ph
what was the criminal justice act then?
well how come i know of over twenty rigs that have been confiscated and a stupid number of people arrested for putting them on then? and given asbo’s?
and how come surrey have a rave response unit of two 4×4’s and a helicopter?
how come my mate was shadowed by the feds for 6 months?
i would like to able to advertise them, for a start, and i would like some subsidies from the governement and coucil for doing socially beeficial events.
i would like designated areas decided in conjuction with the police and local authorities, so we can hold outdoor raves without fear of prosecution.
not cops coming to every single one, taking photos and descriptions, and generally making everyone feel like criminals!
squatjuice gallery has been taken down, because the photos on it have been used in court cases.
when was the last time you went raving, and how did the police react?
– a draconian set of powers which most people are completely ignorant of unless they are on the wrong side of it; i was referring to the PEL situation now being enforced because they got tired of the last piece of legislation they had
i would like to able to advertise them, for a start, and i would like some subsidies from the governement and coucil for doing socially beeficial events.
i would like designated areas decided in conjuction with the police and local authorities, so we can hold outdoor raves without fear of prosecution.
not cops coming to every single one, taking photos and descriptions, and generally making everyone feel like criminals!
then you will need to learn to play by their rules and say what they want to hear [whether or not it is true]; the PEL is here to stay for now until the councils get fed up with their latest legal mallet
when was the last time you went raving, and how did the police react?
if by raving you mean an ‘illegal party’; last summer and no police turned up; we did not annoy the natives so no cops came
you can either spend your time railing about how unfair it is or learn to use the system to your advantage; there are ways round all pieces of legislation
so you’re saying you applied for a public entertainment lisence for a freeaparty and got it? and paid no money? i did not know that was possible.
where did you hold it, can you post a copy of the application, have you any tips on how you managed to obtain your lisence?
i was really hoping someone would volunteer info like this, i would love to hear more. i thought PELs had been around for ages. the new legislation i was aware of was the Temporary Events Notice, but i know three crews who have applied, including my own who have been turned down.
you have cheered me up no end!
what was the criminal justice act then?
The Criminal Justice act is a public order act. And the part that concerns us mostly is sec63 which is there because parties are not an illegal act in themselves so they needed the power to be able to act lawfully in circumstances of public order. Make no mistake if they couldnât contain us and stop us or make it hard, we would grow and become a force that we couldnât control, gangs and organized crime would have a field day. Which is why they changed the law and pursued organizers of the late 80âs acid house parties, this in turn is how freeparties came about But the fact still stands Parties are not illegal,
well how come i know of over twenty rigs that have been confiscated and a stupid number of people arrested for putting them on then? and given asbo’s?
a number or rigs have been seized some have been returned, I donât know of many that have been confiscated under sec63 and not returned, they burned missions but if you play on when its been issued thatâs the risk. Public Order is and always has been taken very seriously.
A number of rigs and individuals have fallen to a lack of understanding of the licensing laws which is what freeparties were all about to avoid the Public Entertainments license.
Some problems could have been avoided and some were messages to leave areas alone, nothing new there.
and how come surrey have a rave response unit of two 4×4’s and a helicopter?
Many areas have rave response teams even before the 1994 CJA but still parties arenât illegal. You want to party in the countryside fair enough but someone else thinks they own it and its not surprising that the police are being used by those with the influence to talk to superintendents and police chiefs and hold sway with local authorities and the like.
And you might find that venues are a finite resource and areas have been rinsed and not always by caring people.
how come my mate was shadowed by the feds for 6 months?
how would I know.
i would like to able to advertise them, for a start, and i would like some subsidies from the governement and coucil for doing socially beeficial events.
You can advertise a party but it brings it into the public domain and you need a license, how do you argue that you donât need to have one or pay for it, when others have to.
There are a number of âsocially beneficialâ things that come out of freeparties but that argument will be torn apart by the media and those who donât want the great unwashed in their neck of the woods if you try and use it.
i would like designated areas decided in conjuction with the police and local authorities, so we can hold outdoor raves without fear of prosecution.
You want âareas decided in conjunction with the police and local authoritiesâ, donât forget landowners, locals and interested groups. Have you really thought this through?
and considered the problems it throws up.
not cops coming to every single one, taking photos and descriptions, and generally making everyone feel like criminals!
The cops quite often act reasonably or within the law as long as you understand how to behave. I have seen them go over the top and they are sometimes unpredictable especially if they want to make a point clear and more often than not they go beyond the call when they are being moved by the influence of some landed gentry, as in some of the confiscations and PEL prosecutions last year.
squatjuice gallery has been taken down, because the photos on it have been used in court cases.
Freeparty forums have been used as evidence that the parties were public and I donât know about the all the photos but some were used as evidence that individuals or groups were there but not as evidence showing that they were guilty.
No, small mis-understanding here. We still had to pay for the PEL, and the party had a small charge, so it wasn’t technically a free party.
On the other hand, it was run by volunteers, and nobody was in it for profit – the entry was just to cover the costs of getting legal (and nobody minded ÂŁ25 for a 4 day party which included the camping – it worked quite well, and naturally we weren’t worried if people came in who were too skint to pay but still wanted to party)
The only really important thing to remember is that you have to cap (or at least appear to) at 1000 people. Any more and you need to pay the wages for PC plod to be onsite…
It was held in rural Scotland, and the application would be fairly useless to you, as they need to be written for the venue being used. I’m happy to give you a hand writing one for the venue you want to use though, but you will need to get in touch with your local council to get info on what they want to see in the PEL (it’s supposed to be the same everywhere, but in practice there are some quite big differences between different councils) or
you have cheered me up no end!
Temporary event notices still require the same kind of PEL as permanent site licenses, and have a fee (which is of course not refundable if the application is turned down). Charities do get a healthy discount but the PEL must be applied for by the charity in question and it must be a registered one.
On the subject of free parties however, you legally don’t need any of these licenses if you have a site (preferably in the countryside) which you have permission to use from the owner of the land or building. The party does have to be restricted to members of a private club and is therefore not technically open to the public and in this way bypasses the need for PEL. It helps to actually set up the club btw and keep the contact list off your computer as this contravenes the data protection act… [what a great excuse for not having it on a machine…]
On the night it would probably help to have some visible ‘stewards’ [all sound systems have these; they are crew members] in high vis vests, a first aider and kit, a way to call help if something were to go wrong at the party and some idea where your nearest A&E is. Also be aware of ‘Risks’ as defined in H&S documentation
There was an english party last year which flexed the PEL laws in this way and got away with it; i think they may have collected donations towards something at the party but it was not done on the door. Discretion wins every time.
To be doing free parties in this nanny state era requires slightly more work but once you have done it for the first time you can just keep recycling the same effort again and again; what the grey people want does not change all that fast.
so it was a festival, sorry, i should have been clearer. im onabout getting free parties, that is non-profit, no-lisence events put on on common or national trust land taht go on all night, legalised.
sounds great. but you made no money, no one got paid for stewarding (which lets face it is a shit job, i help run community events in brighton that are non profit) and the coucil did? thats gay. nice that you let the people too skint in.
The only really important thing to remember is that you have to cap (or at least appear to) at 1000 people. Any more and you need to pay the wages for PC plod to be onsite…
yerp, 1000 people is nearly reasonable i spose. 2000 would be better.
yea, if you could email it to me (i pmed you my addy) that would be mint. ive helped make apps for similar events, but seeing how others do it always usefull.
On the subject of free parties however, you legally don’t need any of these licenses if you have a site (preferably in the countryside) which you have permission to use from the owner of the land or building. The party does have to be restricted to members of a private club
and is therefore not tec
yea, thats what i was saying about advertising.
check, check and check. except the high vis jackets. good plan.
yea, the club thing still makes it not a free party in my book.
as i said, free parties as i understand them and have been comducting them, whicle are completely morally defensable, and i owild be more than happy to go to court over them, are illegal.
i appreciate all the advice abotu circumnavagating the law, and its very relevent to other projects im involved in. thank you greatly. but i still am not ahppy with the law as it stands and want to change it. this thread was meant to be about doing that. it is possible.
the parties i do are, and they shouldnt be.
a number or rigs have been seized some have been returned
and at least 15 are in the copshop right now. nothing to do with carrying on parties that have bee asked to shut down.
i have held parties five times on very spread out private land with the land owners written permission and the cops still come and shut us down. maybe i should have argued my case, but when you have 35 coppers, a dog section et al breathing down your neck saying they will take th rig and destroy it, its hard to keep a level head. on two occasions the onlyreason the didnt is that a mates dad came down who is a safe city proffessional and he talked the talk and they let us pack up and not take our rig.
how would I know.
you dont seem that in touch with whats going on today, if you dont mind me saying. i appreciate your experience in the matter tho.
You can advertise a party but it brings it into the public domain and you need a license, how do you argue that you donât need to have one or pay for it, when others have to.
because the party is free and for the benefit of the community.
There are a number of âsocially beneficialâ things that come out of freeparties but that argument will be torn apart by the media and those who donât want the great unwashed in their neck of the woods if you try and use it.
that remains to be seen.
You want âareas decided in conjunction with the police and local authoritiesâ, donât forget landowners, locals and interested groups. Have you really thought this through? and considered the problems it throws up.
yes, ive been dealing with those very groups for six years. parish meetings, rotary club, local press and wildlife action groups can all be persuaded.
The cops quite often act reasonably or within the law as long as you understand how to behave. I have seen them go over the top and they are sometimes unpredictable especially if they want to make a point clear and more often than not they go beyond the call when they are being moved by the influence of some landed gentry, as in some of the confiscations and PEL prosecutions last year.
yes, i think the influence of the media has a massive impact as well. we threw parties for years with no worries untill the press alerted the commisioners, who breathed down necks andfucked our raves.
i cant comment on court cases that are ongoing, obviously. evidence is evidence at the end of the day. are you suggesting the evidence was in the partycrews favour?
i appreciate what you are both saying, but im saying change the law.
why are you so against that? do you agree with lisencing laws? cos thats what it sounds like.
I get the impression that while the law remains you still want to continue to party or are you planning to stop until it is changed?
While I would welcome a return to free and unninterrupted parties, goverments are not good at removing legislation they dont use and even less good at removing at restoring civil liberties.
If you are serious about changing the law I support that but, being fairly pragmatic, expect it not to be immediate in effect.
In the mean time we need to work within the existing frameworks even when we dont like them etc.:get_you: as we will be bludgeoned with them at every opportunity especially once you exist on the authorities radar.
I find this thread title misleading and I canât understand why its been made it a sticky.
Raves are not illegal and wanting legal sites is a completely different matter.
A âPrivate Partyâ does not need a license; âa Public Partyâ needs a license. One way or another itâs been like that for hundreds of years. It should be of little concern to us how the state collects its revenue on booze.
To be able to keep the queens peace they have the Public Order Act and that gives them wide sweeping powers if they need them to control their subjects These Public Order Acts are entrenched in our history back to the Normans with the Justices of the Peace act to keep unruly types under control and it has grown and got more draconian over the centuries, not more liberal and I stress they take matters of Public Order very seriously. The same goes for the licenses acts, revenue acts. You can deny in the face of reality the lies that this country is built on but we shouldnât be going along with distortion of the truth put out by the media amongst others that Raves are Illegal.
Raves may break other laws and the authorities have ample laws and powers at their disposal and for various reasons some just and others not, however I donât think we should confirm their misrepresentation of the truth even though it feels like they are illegal.
Private parties are not illegal and that has always been so, you seem to want public freeparties which need a license so you would have to change the licensing laws just for a start. I would wish you good luck but you will need more than that.
private parties arent free for anyone to come, so they are not free parties! read the front page of the site, it puts the thread in context.
:rant: i’ve changed the title, now, you pedantic old bastard.:rant: .
happpy????? no i didn’t think so. people like you never are. why do you feel the need to spread you poison onto other people as well? just lock yourself away, and stay there. you’ve been tryong to hijack this thread to fit into your narrowminded veiw of the world from the start. and its not helping anyone.
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