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  • @General Lighting 371567 wrote:

    the problem is most people would (and do) fully agree that some dude what busted his back hauling boxes at Felixstowe for 40 years deserves everything the NHS can offer him, including treatment and a place in a old folks home.

    Ironically, he will then be given tons of opiates to dull the pain! However, the argument is everyone in the country benefited from the contents of whatever was in the containers he helped unload.

    Its a bit more difficult for people to feel compassion when you’re dealing with someone my age what never has had a steady job in their lives and has been busted a couple of times for stealing things, perhaps even from vulnerable people (there are plenty of instances of addicts robbing squats and other homeless people!)

    OK there is a chance they can turn their lives around but they need to show they can put in the effort to do this and keep on at it, and there’s a limit to how many chances a person can be given.

    I would support an initial “soft touch” approach but it people continually relapse/do crime then move it towards the new Asian model (introduced in place of the death penalty), where people are kept on an abstinence based program in a closed/medium secure environment but more a hospital than a prison – this is no worse than the régime of most elderly care homes…

    I can see why people see the way they do (hell most people are quite stupid lets be honest, especially when we get to “collective thinking”) I just wish they weren’t so damn ignorent. But then to some extent we are all guilty of the same thing and besides truth is relative anyway.

    Personally I am for the legalisation of all drugs and I find it hard to understand any attempt at logically arguing otherwise.

    That new Asian way seems a step in the right direction. The War on drugs is the least successful war in history so perhaps change has to some one day. Plus, reason has come a long way, IQ points keep going up. Maybe in a few 100 years reason logic and debate will be the way laws are made and society’s formed. But then again, we are humanity and humanity is stuck with its emotions and the Dail Mail. So who knows.

    Either way Benzo’s make me type so slowly my T is cold so catch u on the flip side Dr GL

    @1984 371565 wrote:

    The key is to see serious addiction as an illness (or even better a symptom of an illness) rather than just something people chose to do.

    I can not view addiction as an illness – as if I do so – I negate that persons responsibility

    and this is not so with an addiction – we all choose to pick up

    it usually is a learnt behaviour yes, but it is a choice, at some time it doesnt feel like a choice and yes people often need help or medical intervention to halt it – but this is a choice and they need to ask for the help and we in the UK are very lucky to have this on the NHS – as many times as needed – I know someone who’s had 40+ detoxes!!! unlike amsterdam or the netherlands (I think) only have 3 detoxes per lifetime free)

    I’d rather agree with it being a symptom, of ‘ill – ease’ (‘dis- ease’ in the purest sense)
    unhappy people are addicts,

    and what with this is everyday use, the point of loosing your kids and home and still using, the point of flat lining and still using when released / loosing limbs and being yellow from liver failure and distended stomach full of liquid – and still drinking as yes this incluudes alcohol!

    @Tank Girl 371588 wrote:

    unlike amsterdam or the netherlands (I think) only have 3 detoxes per lifetime free)

    wow, didn’t realise this.. yet I don’t hear of people dying like flies so IMO it seems fair as NL public sector does seem to do a lot more to keep people happy… (i recently learned they have loads of public benefits like guaranteed time off and “holiday pay” from the government)

    Some dude here and even my mum were talking about the new Malaysian approach, I was surprised at how “right-on” it is as it wasn’t that long ago they’d just hang drug users…

    rehab should not be overly punitive IMO but at the same time it shouldn’t be an easy option…

    @General Lighting 371626 wrote:

    .

    rehab should not be overly punitive IMO but at the same time it shouldn’t be an easy option…

    there is a huge difference between rehab and detox ..

    lots of people need detox for whatever reason – physical / mental / respite / etc

    if your looking at propper 6 month + rehab – the system seems fucked!! the rationale for who gets funding… and …. well….. who doesnt..

    madness IMO

    its ironic but they seem to be doing a way better job of it in Malaysia and Singapore these days..

    its dawned on the authorities they can’t just go hanging all the young drug users or they’ll have no kids left so they seem to be genuinely working across cultures and faith groups to get people’s lives back on track…

    Yeh, Heroin is a big NO NO NO.

    As is any serious opiate habit (like those oxy sniffers, same deal). I went on Methadone for 2 or 3 years. That was hell and I used on top plus smoking crack just to get high while abusing countless benzos and alcohol on top aswell. Yeh, I OD’ed a few times. Luckily I survived.

    Strong opiate addiction is hell. It’s a slow (or sometimes quick) death. It destroys your personality. It ruins friendships. It turns you into a hermit. Your whole life falls apart. And, my goodness, it is so hard to get back from it.

    I eventually went on subutex and I know that has saved some peoples lives but I also hated that stuff too. It’s extremely strong and very addictive. I went through hell withdrawing off the stuff. Not as extreme as short acting opiate withdrawals but heck, it just goes on forever so I don’t know which is worse.

    Subutex leads people to believe they are clean and sorted. They still forget that it is massively effecting their personality and ability to feel emotion and relate to other people. It fucked me like any other opiate.

    I been clean 9 months now. Still trying to get my life back together. Still struggling with breaking the hermit lifestyle cycle. Still just don’t know how to function as a full human being without the opiates coursing through my veins. But, I wasn’t functioning on them anyway. I was a total and utter mess. I lost all friends, all respect, all confidence, all morals. I was an asshole, a dope fiend. I hated myself so much I didn’t care about OD’ing in the end. In fact, I went to bed at night hoping I’d never wake up.

    Yeh, Heroin (and similar powerful opiates) are NOT clever. Don’t be fooled by a little selfish, self-absorbed ‘bliss’. It won’t last long until it just becomes a matter of trying not to feel sick all the time. And yeh, you feel sick on it too. I felt ill most of the time after a while. I never got high any more. Just sick all the time, nauseous, constipation from hell, health problems, mental health problems, behavioural problems. It was the worst mistake in my life and I’m still paying for it.

    Who’s going to employ a 36yo ex-registered addict? Man, why, why, why?

    Don’t make the same mistake. It’s an evil drug. Many drugs have side-effects and shit parts but yes, heroin/opiates are in a total different category to everything else, even cocaine. Crack is pretty evil in my opinion but still, I detoxed off that in 3 days although cravings lasted for a very long time. Going harder than cocaine is bad news and cocaine certainly isn’t handled well by some.

    STAY OFF HEROIN, PERCOCETS, OXYS, STRONG OPIATES. Try not to get used to the weak opiates either although I know they are hugely less problematic but my opiate love affair started 18 years ago after taking a very large dose of codeine. I chased the poppy products for the rest of my life till early last year.

    It ruined my life also. I just hope I can rebuild it somehow…

    @Tank Girl 371627 wrote:

    there is a huge difference between rehab and detox ..

    lots of people need detox for whatever reason – physical / mental / respite / etc

    if your looking at propper 6 month + rehab – the system seems fucked!! the rationale for who gets funding… and …. well….. who doesnt..

    madness IMO

    Yes that is the problem. I was refused rehab/detox. They wouldn’t fund it. I did six weeks completely on my own going through hell and ending up on a Psych ward.

    After that I was promised some sort of help but after 2 months was told that this wasn’t happening due to no funding.

    I’ve done the whole detox on my own. It has been hell. It could have been so much easier.

    It’s taken so much out of me that I’m depressed and have no idea how to rebuild my life. My confidence in society and the NHS was wrecked. I thought they would help me do the right thing.

    That confidence is coming back VERY slowly.

    @vincentx90 371794 wrote:

    Yeh, Heroin is a big NO NO NO.

    As is any serious opiate habit (like those oxy sniffers, same deal). I went on Methadone for 2 or 3 years. That was hell and I used on top plus smoking crack just to get high while abusing countless benzos and alcohol on top aswell. Yeh, I OD’ed a few times. Luckily I survived.

    sorry to hear you’v had such a hard few years man. Out of interest how do you abuse benzos heavily? would you not just fall asleep?

    I am rather new to benzos

    the constipation i got from necking too much codeine one night was enough to make me say HELL NEW! to the stuff ever since. just not worth it. people who get in a bad way with opiates have some underlying issues imo. ive always found K to be willing to fuck me up enough without having to even consider anything harder.

    @1984 371816 wrote:

    sorry to hear you’v had such a hard few years man. Out of interest how do you abuse benzos heavily? would you not just fall asleep?

    I am rather new to benzos

    tolerance building up i believe, taking loads everday.

    hell no dont fuck with thar shit i do drugs but nothin like that and thats because it leads to nothing good at all look if ur goin to do anything stay with tha weed, beans, and shrooms. look i have a big bro who did it once and was like “i wont get addicted’ yeah he didnt get addicted he just loved the high i guess and about a week after use he got adicted and now he lives on the street sumwhere i havent seen him for about 2 years

    @p0ly 371874 wrote:

    tolerance building up i believe, taking loads everday.

    Yeh it can be due to tolerance build up. Also, it’s a mindset. You learn to fight it and go into a different level. A bit like some people can drink themselves sober.

    I could take 300mg of valium in one handful and assure you I would be awake the whole day. But I would sleep well at night…

    Also, at very high doses benzos can induce a high rather than a low. A bit like alcohol can sometimes stimulate although it is really a pure downer.

    I do NOT recommend taking large doses of benzos. It is dangerous and the resulting behavioural problems can get yourself killed or arrested very easily. Also, any mix with other downers at that dose and you liable to die.

    I think I just have a huge tolerance to the drug, mentally, even though I quit the frequent habit.

    I think at first I did mix with uppers to stay awake, so tolerance and mentality (to fight it) must come with (bad) experience. But can I really remember? I mean, man, benzos play havoc with your memory…

    er, what was I talking about? How did I get here? Where am I? Eek. I’m off…
    :laugh_at:

    where u taking valium in powder form? thats alot of pills if not.

    (i know valium is a pharm name but still)

    @vincentx90 371965 wrote:

    Yeh it can be due to tolerance build up. Also, it’s a mindset. You learn to fight it and go into a different level. A bit like some people can drink themselves sober.

    I could take 300mg of valium in one handful and assure you I would be awake the whole day. But I would sleep well at night…

    Also, at very high doses benzos can induce a high rather than a low. A bit like alcohol can sometimes stimulate although it is really a pure downer.

    I do NOT recommend taking large doses of benzos. It is dangerous and the resulting behavioural problems can get yourself killed or arrested very easily. Also, any mix with other downers at that dose and you liable to die.

    I think I just have a huge tolerance to the drug, mentally, even though I quit the frequent habit.

    I think at first I did mix with uppers to stay awake, so tolerance and mentality (to fight it) must come with (bad) experience. But can I really remember? I mean, man, benzos play havoc with your memory…

    er, what was I talking about? How did I get here? Where am I? Eek. I’m off…
    :laugh_at:

    so why did you take them then? just out of addiction or did you get some kind of recreational benefit?

    I ask because I took some benzo’s recently and found them so dull I am unsure what to do other than wait for a close friend to die and then injest them to cope.

    had a friend die a year and a half ago from too many downers. vodka, valys and heroin to be more pacific. TBF he was headed on the road to no where. absoloute nutter. (having a mum as a heroin addict, and being an alcoholic at the age of 23, he didnt appear like he wanted to make any changes in his life). too many downers can be fatal, your heart stops beating and you die. dont do it.

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