How limited, if at all, do you think freedom of speech should be?

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How limited, if at all, do you think freedom of speech should be?

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October 5, 2007 at 5:40 pm

#692979
1

timid rabbit

@timid-rabbit

Member
I have been thinking about this alot since the BNP recently blanketed a neighborhood near mine with flyers discussing illegal immigration, race etc. There was a huge outrage, and the news was acting like it was worse thing to ever happen. Should hate groups be censored/restricted? Or banned? Is it fair for the media to go after a radical racist group but not go after a radical enviromental group who goes around slashing tires of SUV’s?

As much as I disagree and dislike the BNP and other similar groups, I don’t think they should be punished,attacked or singled out for airing their views.
October 5, 2007 at 9:16 pm

#892472
1

globalloon

@globalloon

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is it fair for nazis to mass-murder people because of their ethnicity? that’s where the BNP lead, after all
October 5, 2007 at 10:16 pm

#892468
6

General Lighting

@general-lighting

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Staff
I think the current levels in this country are OK.

People do have a lot of free speech here compared to many nations, but when individuals do step out of line and use their freedom to advocate hurting others there is an outcry from the rest of society and something is usually done about it.

If a leaflet campaign leads to a rise in real crime (such as racial attacks) then action should be taken. Its because with groups like BNP that this has happened in some areas they get more shit than other activist groups might do – although cops/SOCA don’t exactly leave the more extreme animal rights groups alone either, nor Islamic radicals or any other sort of violent criminal.

its not like some foreign countrys (even relatively prosperous ones) where there are bombs and racial riots every day so I think we have the right balance in Britain.

Anyway, society needs to get to the bottom of why the activist/extremist group exists in the first place, and by letting it speak information can be obtained.

A lot of groups do so much damage to their cause by exercising their free speech that preventing their expression may be actually doing them a favour!
October 5, 2007 at 10:36 pm

#892473
1

globalloon

@globalloon

Member
i think that although england was never actually invaded by the nazis during WWII we were the european country that experienced the most significant and lasting harm as a result of that war… as a result of the blitz (which many cities still have not recovered from even todayand the fact that all of our resources (including people) were thrown at repelling the invasion

I think there should be loud and widespread outcry when any views similar to those held by the nazis are given air

the BNP tried to get a foothold in the westcountry about 3 or 4 years ago. they dragged up about 8 people to stand for district council seats… the reality on the street was gangs of skinhead thugs abusing and threatening any non-white or anyone who challenged their views

i personally approached one of these groups and told them my wife is an immigrant. one of them told me he would find out where i live and would “make me wich I’d never been born”

at which point I laughed in his contorted face. we (the local anti-fash) made sure every one of their candidates were thoroughly discredited and IIRC not one was able to stand in the elections once we’d dug a bit

these people need to be stamped out, not given understanding or the oxygen to spout their hate. they give that right up when they remove others freedom to exist peacefully with their own actions
October 5, 2007 at 10:50 pm

#892469
6

General Lighting

@general-lighting

Moderator
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globalloon wrote:

I think there should be loud and widespread outcry when any views similar to those held by the nazis are given air

the BNP tried to get a foothold in the westcountry about 3 or 4 years ago. they dragged up about 8 people to stand for district council seats… the reality on the street was gangs of skinhead thugs abusing and threatening any non-white or anyone who challenged their views

i personally approached one of these groups and told them my wife is an immigrant. one of them told me he would find out where i live and would “make me wich I’d never been born”

such acts are just crime, pure and simple. other political parties don’t abuse or attack opponents in the street that often and when they do (it does happen with the mainstream parties occasionally) the bobbies usually get involved. (“civilisation” is more fragile than many realise).

Quote:

we (the local anti-fash) made sure every one of their candidates were thoroughly discredited and IIRC not one was able to stand in the elections once we’d dug a bit

these people need to be stamped out, not given understanding or the oxygen to spout their hate. they give that right up when they remove others freedom to exist peacefully with their own actions

they can only be stamped out if people expose them and others are willing to challenge their actions, particularly when those who are perhaps ignorant or angry by change are prepared to support them – and this goes for the islamic militant gangs as well whom I consider to be equally dangerous(they can be more hassle if you are Asian!)

when the BNP tried Reading they got challenged by a large multicultural crowd and had to be escorted out by TVP for their own safety….
October 5, 2007 at 11:10 pm

#892474
1

globalloon

@globalloon

Member
General Lighting wrote:

such acts are just crime, pure and simple. other political parties don’t abuse or attack opponents in the street that often and when they do (it does happen with the mainstream parties occasionally) the bobbies usually get involved. (“civilisation” is more fragile than many realise).

i know. sadly the local cops were fucking weak… i quiet word was all they managed after numerous complaints

Quote:

when the BNP tried Reading they got challenged by a large multicultural crowd and had to be escorted out by TVP for their own safety….

shame they didn’t get their worthless heads kicked in for their own good

i’ve become pretty hardline when it comes to racist views.. although that presents it’s own irony… i’m aware that i find it pretty had to be objective about the BNP because of my own experiences of them… but fuck it, no matter how objective, their views don’t hold up to any objective analysis… off the record i think it’s one of the only times that violence is acceptable
October 5, 2007 at 11:20 pm

#892470
6

General Lighting

@general-lighting

Moderator
Staff
Quote:

i’ve become pretty hardline when it comes to racist views.. although that presents it’s own irony…

being slightly older I think the early 80s are back again, the fallout from 7/7 and the ruthless competition for jobs caused by globalisation has wiped out 25 years of positive progress… views on all sides are becoming more hardline and unfortunately there are people around who would only understand violence as they are wholly prepared to use it against their opponents.
October 6, 2007 at 1:18 am

#892481
1

orangetitch

@orangetitch

Member
Hey guys, im on the night shift again and up for a bit of late night propaganda….

I agree with you guys, but there are always different sides, firstly I have to say that we were not the main country to experience the negative effects of the Nazi’s, we need to remember the Jewish in Poland and neighbouring areas, fair enough, not a country but a whole race instead. I still believe that we need these pressure groups, we could almost look at it as, the middle and upper classes and the way they view us and the scene, outcasts of the modern capitalist society, leading to, we are only products of the society we live in right. What are the social norms, there are none, so the pressure grouips need to be there to enforce this (no social norms) or we suddenly are all one way…

I dont agree with racism, please dont think this, but after being in London 11 years, there is a worrying trend of problems around this area. As I have said before I feel this country is getting all it deserves, looking at history (the colonies) and these people are now getting the revenge they deserve, however this is again fuelling the hatred groupd because these people are succeding.

Sorry for the rambling
October 6, 2007 at 11:22 am

#892484
1

tarifa

@tarifa

Member
freedom of speech means freedom to all.

Once you start banning people its a slippery slope. Who decides what’s to be banned? and where does it stop?

I personally hate racism and biggotry an agree that it would be great if leaflet campaigns, abuse, attacks etc didn’t happen but surely the best way to battle this is to educate people and figure out why there is such a well of fear and anger out there to be tapped into by these idiots. Fight the source not the symptoms.

Having said that i am often infuriated by the media and want to forceably gag them, but have to remind myself of that slippery slope.

Freedom has to be extended to all or its not freedom. Incitement to violence and riot are still crimes aren’t they? Think that’s the best we can do unfortunately.
October 6, 2007 at 11:52 am

#892480
1

timid rabbit

@timid-rabbit

Member
I agree that people should have the right to protest something they don’t agree with, but i don’t think the govt. or anyone else for that matter should be allowed to stop hate group or any other group’s material from being handed out. Why don’t they stop the mormons coming to my door trying to get me to convert? Or pizza parlors from leaving fliers in my hallway? Or ban charities from going door to door? The govt. shouldn’t be allowed to pick and choose what groups get freedom of speech.as some folk pointed out its best we know what there veiws are
October 6, 2007 at 1:20 pm

#892471
6

General Lighting

@general-lighting

Moderator
Staff
tarifa wrote:

Freedom has to be extended to all or its not freedom. Incitement to violence and riot are still crimes aren’t they? Think that’s the best we can do unfortunately.

exactly. If the leaflet campaign leads to a rise in actual crimes then eventually the Police will notice this (although it does mean people have to report stuff, or at least use places like crimestoppers). There are “racial equality” type places in most towns where people can report stuff and it is passed on to the Police and Councils.

However if just “talking about stuff” were clamped down on any further, this site (or at least some of its content) could be under threat as it could be viewed to be advocating or glorifying all sorts of criminal activity, ranging from property crime and public nuisance to the use of illegal drugs..
October 6, 2007 at 5:11 pm

#892467
[deleted]

@[deleted]

Guest
yes what the BNP say is disgusting, but people should be allowed to judge for themselves.

If you ban something it becomes more interesting and exciting to people and the people who author it bec ome underdogs which people may sympathise with more readily.

the BNP shouldnt be hidden away, they should be made to say whatever theyre going to say for all to hear so we can unite in telling them they’re as wrong as it gets.
October 6, 2007 at 8:28 pm

#892482
1

orangetitch

@orangetitch

Member
This can easily lead to an oppressed society like BUrma…

Dont usualy follow the news but been intrigued by this one. Dont know if anyone here saw the headlines the other day, it went on a bit as usual, but it ended with the Burmees headlines for the day. It showed the Govenor being walked around a couple of warehouses being shown the annual ouput of umbrellas and other material goods that had been made on the site, 3 stories down there was a short clip and story of the riots, it had been blamed on students outside the university, but no content was included, or any of the violence used or the murdered Monks…

1984 ring any bells!!!!
October 6, 2007 at 10:23 pm

#892475
1

globalloon

@globalloon

Member
i’m not saying i think they should be banned, but it would be great a significant proportion of the BNP we shipped off to some ocean and sunk 😉
October 6, 2007 at 10:54 pm

#892483
1

orangetitch

@orangetitch

Member
Dont get me wrong, they believe in Barbaric and tunnel visions. But I dont want to end up in even more of a dictatorship than we are already
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