TBH I think its an upsurge of violence in society in general which carried through to the rave scene at the same time K became popular; leading to people connecting the two separate issues…
the rave scene is dying out as the older generation take too many drugs an are para as fuck…like the 1/2 the guys on sj
but us younger uns r keepin the free party goin fine as…if u go 2 the parties run by the younger crew the 1s who nvr bin 2 a “proper rave” they r safe as fuck. the only party ive been to thats been even slightly narcy has had very few kheads just the old skool ravers who havnae taken a minute 2 chill out. not sayin older folk shouldnae rave im sayin that sum o them hav gone a bit 2 hard 2 long an fucked things up.
actually most of the people on SJ are fairly young (the older ravers on there tend also to use this board as well)
I reckon its personality rather than raves – you get people who would “start a fight in an empty house” – I think you call them bams or neds and we call them “nutters” here (that term may be UK-wide) – even when I was a teen in the old skool days there were a couple of lads in our crowd who just would always look for a fight no matter how many pills they took or whatever
Its interesting that you say the older lot are moodier in Scotland – we also had some moody old bastards on the London scene but they’ve gone now, either given up or brown bread due to overdoses/fighting – and many were more talk than fight…
but what has happened down south is that its as small but violent minority of the younger lot (age 16-21) attend parties with the express purpose of damaging something or somebody… (the olds here do real crime instead like armed robberies, commercial burglaries or major dealing)
There is IMO a far larger fighting/violence culture amongst lads then there was even in my day (the 1980s); of course boys will fight, but recently its as if they are prepared to even kill over a small dispute (whether weapons are used or not) – its not good enough to punch someone and knock them out, they have to be stamped on and bones broken etc – also in the early 90s even my nutter friends wouldn’t have dreamed of fighting at a rave, it would have been kept to the estates instead.
in London its got to the point most decent free party crews deploy security who are like “friendly bouncers” – they don’t stand for nonsense and will confiscate weapons (you’d be amazed what people carry these days!) but they don’t use excessive violence and aren’t like club bouncers.
Its slightly better in my city but even then we have problems and a lot of grief with vandalism; we’ve even had rigs sabotaged and people go to particular trouble to open up radiator valves and pipes to flood warehouses – a couple of other friends in a crew told me about this – at first I thought it was comedown paranoia on their part as the night wore on but it happened 3 times in a row in different counties – can’t work out the mentality behind this (particularly as some of the damage would have needed specialist plumbing tools to open up the valves!)
Vandalism is of course less danger than violence – however people smash property to psyche themselves up to move on to violence..
The cost of damage to buildings is also one of the main reasons cops in my area now feel justified in taking harsher action against raves – quite simply when the cost of damage to property and people (the NHS aren’t free!) is more than the cost of police overtime, calling the riot squad out becomes cost-effective!)
Yep i recon its necessary to be organised and have some Freindly but firm Bouncers on the door. This justs make people feel safer and possibly even suggests to people who whant to kick off or let out that the bouncer could be waching.
Also Yep times are a changing heard a story from some one who when to one of dem early stonhendge festies and as he arrived he noticed a burnt out car with the words this was a dealers car sprayed across it, aparantly finding out that brown was making an apearence and people just got pissed off wid it. I’m not suggesting people go out and burn out vehicals. but that reaction or self policing seems to be less obvious. Wheather people are worried about the reaction of approching someone or they feel that if they say something they will be the only one is something that should be addressed.
At alternative events there is a community spirit consisting of crew , crews mates, regulars and these people recognise each other and at any given party if all grouped together have far more of an impact than at any legal event. There just neads to be clear messages sent out to the outlaws, of witch may well be some of the regulars, and hopefully if these people are spotted they are either not let in or are simply followed about by ten times as many people.
Any way more organiseing, meetings, disissions need to be made. Over time
If you are robbed at a legal event you know who you can approach for help, but not necessarily at allternative event, i recon this neads to change.
The network is there it just neads to addapt to survive.
sorry bout the spelling
I have to comment on this post,
I moved up to Leicester about 6 years ago and I have to say I now make a point of not going to London.
A. Because its full of wankers who dont even say hello or sometimes dont even look at you
B. Because its fooking expensive!
c. Everyone loves money & loves showing off that they have it
There certainly arent any big parties up here but most of the ones that do go on happen without any problems and everyone just gets on with it.
I do agree that the scene is noway near as big as it once was but youve got to remember that the days of rave tunes being no 1 records are now about 12 years ago! I think its just going back underground again. I dont think its related to drugs, just a natural evolution.
NB: This is originally from PubMED, a source intended for the use of medical professionals, hence the complicated jargon.
Anaesthesia and Intensive Care
etamine Dependence
H. R. PAL, N. BERRY, R. KUMAR, R. RAY
De-addiction Centre, All India Institute of Medical Sciences, New Delhi, IndiaKetamine hydrochloride is a safe and rapid-acting non-opioid, lipid soluble anaesthetic with a short elimination half-life that is used for medical and veterinary purposes. It produces a state of “dissociative anaesthesia”, probably from action on N-methyl-D-aspartate (NMDA) receptors. The psychotropic effects of ketamine range from dissociation and depersonalization to psychotic experiences and include a sensation of feeling light, body distortion, absence of time sense, novel experiences of cosmic oneness and out-of-body experiences. Abuse of ketamine has been reported, the typical abuser being an individual who uses multiple drugs and has some contact with medical agencies. This case demonstrates the effects of large doses of ketamine in a person with polysubstance abuse. The case also highlights development of significant tolerance to ketamine without prominent withdrawal symptoms. Caution in use of ketamine is reiterated in light of its abuse liability.
Ketamine hydrochloride is a safe and rapid-acting analgesic and anaesthetic for medical and veterinary use. It is a non-opioid anaesthetic compound with the chemical formula 2-chlorophyl 1-2-methylamino cyclohexanone hydrochloride. It has phencyclidine phosphate (PCP)-like behavioural effects. Ketamine is lipid soluble, with a short elimination half-life (2-3h) and an early onset of action (depending on the route). The intravenous anaesthetic dose is 1-2 mg/kg body weight. It produces a state of “dissociative anaesthesia” probably via N-methyl-D-aspartate receptors. This is due to selective interruption of associative pathways connecting the thalamo-neo-cortical and limbic systems as well as from selective inhibition and stimulation respectively of these two systems.
The psychotropic effects of ketamine range from dissociation and depersonalization to psychotic experiences. These have sometimes been reported as pleasant whereas many have found them to be extremely distressing. Common experiences reported include a sensation of feeling light, body distortion, absence of time sense, novel experiences of cosmic oneness, out-of-body experiences and so on3. The effects depend on set (state of mind) and the setting (familiar or unfamiliar). These effects are brief, depending on the dose and route, but usually last up to 30 minutes.
There are only case and media reports about illicit use of ketamine. In a series describing 22 cases with illicit use, ketamine abuse occurred in the setting of polydrug abuse. Tolerance develops, with consequent increase in the dose of ketamine abused, and the perceived effects can generally be discriminated from other drugs by users even when this occurs in a poly-drug abuse setting. Studies have addressed the issue of perceived and observed effects of ketamine in recreational users and volunteers. In a comparative evaluation of polydrug users who abused ketamine that was designed to discriminate between acute and chronic effects, the dissociative and schizotypal symptoms were found to persist beyond three days. Ketamine administration produces semantic memory deficits that may persist. However a case report of an individual who used 750 mg ketamine five to six times a day described no residual chronic effects.
Ketamine abuse as an illicit drug or a substance for recreational use has not been reported from India. A case of ketamine dependence seen in the de-addiction centre at the All India Institute of Medical Sciences is presented here.
CASE HISTORY
The patient was a 28-year-old unmarried graduate male with a family history of alcohol dependence in his elder brother and cannabis abuse in another male sibling. He presented with complaints of cannabis use for 17 years, alcohol use for 15 years and injection use of pentazocine followed by ketamine for five to six years. The patient started cannabis use at 11 years of age, and had been a dependent user of cannabis for nearly 10 years at the time of presentation. He started using alcohol at 18 years of age and rapidly escalated this to about 750 ml of distilled spirits within four to five months of his onset of drinking daily. Within five years of alcohol abuse, he experienced physiological signs and symptoms of alcohol withdrawal and strong persistent craving after brief abstinence. At the age of about 24 years he changed to the use of injectable drugs, beginning with pentazocine. This was mostly mixed with promethazine or diazepam and administered intramuscularly initially and intravenously subsequently. He also gradually increased the dose over a four-year period to 400 to 500 mg of pentazocine a day in five to six divided doses. In an attempt to give up pentazocine, as well as overcome the withdrawal effects, he contacted a pharmacist friend. The friend injected the patient with ketamine intravenously without the patient’s knowledge about the nature of medication. The patient lost consciousness immediately upon injection and had to be carried home. Within a few days he returned to the same friend with complaints of distress from not having taken pentazocine. This time the patient experienced relief from his distress by intravenous ketamine, without losing consciousness. The patient continued to procure ketamine from the friend and injected himself with 2 to 4 ml (100-200 mg) daily. This was injected mostly intramuscularly into the anterior thigh in about three to four sittings at home or at the shop where he was working. The experiences described after each dose of ketamine were similar and mostly pleasant in nature. He described these as altered perception of time, feeling of floating in air, increase in size of his hand and arm, watching his own body from outside and feeling as if his body was made of wood. These experiences would start within five to ten minutes and last for about one half to one hour.
Over a period of two to three months he increased the dose of ketamine five- to ten-fold to about 20 ml per day (approximately 1000 mg) divided into six or seven injections per day. During this time he only occasionally used alcohol and tranquillizers in addition.
At this time the patient sought treatment at our centre and he was admitted to the in-patient unit. He did not show any physical withdrawal symptoms from ketamine except insomnia. During his two-week admission he experienced only mild discomfort which settled with diazepam over the first few days.
DISCUSSION
This case demonstrates some well-documented features of ketamine abuse. The patient was a multiple substance user with dependence on alcohol, opioids and cannabis, although at the time of presentation he was primarily using ketamine and alcohol. Dependence on ketamine can be concluded from the rapid escalation of dose (due probably to tolerance) with significant deterioration in socio-occupational functioning. However, he experienced no physical withdrawal symptoms from ketamine. The case also demonstrated some features of the acute effects of ketamine use on perceptual and cognitive functions. These were short-lasting.
The psychotropic effects of ketamine were described during emergence from anaesthesia and are characterized by confusional state, vivid dreaming, extracorporeal experiences, illusions, euphoria and fear. The recreational use of ketamine was initially reported from the United Kingdom and United States of America in “raves” where it was used as an adulterant in methylene-dioxy-methamphetamine (MDMA) tablets and went by the name of “horse pill”. Some authors have reported that these keta-mine users were educated, knew what they were using, how it was to be used and that they used it primarily for introspective and relaxation effects. As in our case, features were rapid induction of tolerance, a reduction in the duration of the experience with continued use, a rapid escalation of dose, no physical withdrawal symptoms and a strong tendency to use the drug repeatedly. Ketamine effects have also been described in volunteers, who express a wide range of positive and negative symptoms akin to schizophrenia.
This case also demonstrates the effects of ketamine abuse in a setting of multiple substance abuse and dependence in India. In view of the abuse liability, caution in its use is warranted. Entry of ketamine into the illicit market is a possibility and must be monitored.
REFERENCES
1. Anis, NA Berry, SC Burton NR, Lodge D. The dissociative anaesthetics, ketamine and phencyclidine, selectively decrease excitation of central neurons by N-methyl-D-aspartate. Br J Pharmacol 1983; 83:179-185.
2. Cotman CW, Monaghan DT. Chemistry and anatomy of excitatory amino acids systems. In: Meltzer H, ed. Psychopharmacology: the third generation of progress. Raven Press, New York, pp.197-210.
3. Hansen G, Jensen SB, Chandresh L, Hilden T. The psychotropic effect of ketamine. J Psychoactive Drugs 1988; 20:419-425.
4. Jansen KLR. Non-medical use of ketamine. Br Med J 1993; 306:601-602.
5. Dalgarno PJ, Shewan D. Illicit use of ketamine in Scotland. J Psychoactive Drugs 1996: 28:191-199.
6. Curran HV, Morgan C. Cognitive, dissociative and psycho-togenic effects of ketamine in recreational users on the night of drug use and three days later. Addiction 2000; 95:575-590.
7. Kamaya H, Krishna PR. Ketamine addiction. Anesthesiology 1987; 67:861-862.
8. Krystal JH, Karper LP, Seibyl JP et al. Sub-anaesthetic doses of non-competitive NMDA antagonist, ketamine, in humans. Arch Gen Psychiatry 1994; 51:199-214.
9. Malhotra A K, Pinals DA, Weingartner H et al. NMDA receptor function and human cognition: effects of ketamine in healthy subjects, Neuropsychopharmacology 1996;14:301-308.
Interesting , nice post dude .
=)
Hands up who reckons that chap (the addict) was a medical professional of some sort? if not a doctor, someone working in a healthcare facility
I mean how on earth do you manage to get such a stable supply of all these drugs, a pharmacists who seems to just hand stuff over without prescriptions, and clean injecting equipment in a developing nation, and all that without getting nicked as well….
i was thinking that i was amazed at the quantity of narcotics he was finding and could really think of no other way of convincing a friend to regularly steal it. worrying.
A long report (4 pages) and obviously aimed at medical professionals, but worth a read.
Provided as an attachment.
URL not provided for security reasons (not a good idea to link a “pro-drugs” site to webservers in one of the worst prohibitionist nanny states in the world!)
SG class ketamine as “Class B”, penalties for dealing are 20 years and ten strokes of the cane!
fuck, if we had laws like that in Britain we’d all be in jail..
He had initially used ketamine to enhance his enjoyment of techno-pop music and the taste of food but quickly developed tolerance with an escalating consumption up to 4 grams per day with peer encouragement,
4 grams a day would floor most of the hardcore k-heads I know – and I wouldn’t class K as a flavour enhancer TBH – the man must have a cast-iron stomach to eat often heavily spiced Chinese food on it!
makes a mockery of their harsh drugs laws though, LOL its like theres an army of singapore ketamine ninjas :biggreen:
i didnt check this forum for like three or four years and you are still talking about the same bollox. is ketamien killing the scene? no! you are! ha ha! have a nice summer anyway, try to get some sunshine or sumting.
I suppose it had to happen one day…
OTOH I’m surprised that it wasn’t made a class B substance (it appears this was not considered as it would create extra work for vets and NHS facilities) I suppose the main idea of this would be that dealers would now be risking confiscation of their profits, which is currently not the case.
Then again there could be some good out of this; I’ve always suspected that K is only popular because of the low risk and high reward; perhaps making it more difficult to get or deal K might even mean if people are going to continue to take drugs they would take more “socially enhancing” substances?
consultation report attached (Crown Copyright 2005 Home Office – uploaded here for information of UK citizens under HMSO/OPSI fair use rules)
This is the other report referred to in the consultation. The first report is fairly comprehensible (and remarkably pragmatic and even fairly liberal in the opinions expressed!) but the second part appears to be intended for medical professionals and is of considerable length and full of medical jargon.
They are definitely worth a read though to see how the “powers that be” deal with new and changing patterns of recreational drug use…
I’ve seen one of my gentlist mates try to kick my head in on K & brew, luckily he was fraggled didn’t stop the next person he bothered from bottleing him though :sick:
really though its being vulnerable on K that makes parties attractive to cunts/theives and stopped some party organisers from self policing.
[hedfuk excepted]
waves to hedfuk possy
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