Forums › Drugs › Ecstasy & MDMA › Legalise it !!!!
@Mezz 488056 wrote:
I do wonder what the consequences of legalising Ecstasy would be, the good and bad
Cost ?
I assume to regulate the production and replace alcohol revenues the Es would have to be heavily taxed, my 1st pill in the early 90s cost me £15, by the time I was in the scene proper they were only costing me £5, but even if legal Es cost £25 each when taxed they would still be cheaper than a night drinking alcohol. A high price would limit the young & dumb from doing to many, and a fixed pure dose per pill would let everyone know exactly what and how much they were taking. I would be happy to pay £25 for a legal E on a night out even knowing 75% of that would be tax.
Safety ?
As stated above, the biggest safety concern with Es is mixing them with alcohol, the best way to keep people safe IMO is to have ‘E clubs’ and ‘Alcohol clubs’ kept separate via licensing, ‘E Clubs’ could even limit sales to 1 per person ( or 2 at lower dose/cost ) and charge more on the door to cover loss of alcohol sales and to cover unlimited FREE water for all customers. ‘E Clubs’ would probably want to have a some medics on staff initially but that would easily be offset by spending less on security since pillheads dont start fights like drinkers do.
Education ?
The whole truth, wouldnt that be refreshing, to be taught in schools, in public info commercials, and to be supplied with every purchase, listing all the effects, pro’s & cons.
Crime ?
Lets not be too optimistic, yes violence would drop in town centers on Friday & Saturday nights if more people took E’s instead of drinking, but crime to fund drugs would still happen, their would still be cheaper ‘non-taxed’ ‘bootleg’ pills around ( illegal dealers ), and people who commit crimes to pay for their fun would still do so. IMO crime would drop, but lets not pretend Es can fix the world lol
Would E’s replace alcohol ?
For many on a Friday or Saturday night YES, but during the week IMO NO. Despite the propaganda me and all my mates who used to be pillin’ every weekend have all always worked for living and you cant do Es the night before work, personally I always preferred to smoke weed to de-stress during the week after work, but many, perhaps most would still enjoy a drink on worknights.
General Health ?
Well I for one was far fitter in my partydays, dancing for several hours straight is better than any gym workout IMO lol
Politics ?
Yuk, dirty word, but cant escape it, yep the Green Party advocate legalisation in the UK, as do some other minority parties. But why ? Much as I support the campaign to legalise Es & weed I have to wonder about their motives, do they believe, or it is just because these minority parties what to tap into the votes of people like me who wouldnt usually bother to vote, and because they dont get funded by the tobacco & alcohol giants ? Would the Green party change their opinion if they got a shot at real power, as in, would they be bought off if they got enough support to make them worth bribing lol
ANYONE AGREE / DISAGREE WITH THE ABOVE ????? ALL OPEN TO DISCUSSION : )
On a side note, and this may make me sounds like a hypocrite, but I started this in the Ecstasy section for a reason, I believe Es should be legal, there are still other far more harmful and addictive drugs that I believe should remain illegal, or at least prescription only to addicts, certainly not on general sale.
Old friend of mine always signed off on cards & texts this way so I will pinch her words ”Love hugs peace & drugs” lol
Nice post mate. Agree with what you’re saying. I’ve long been in favour of separate clubs for drinkers & E takers – I’d even go so far as to say people should be breathalysed on the door of E clubs & if they fail, they can’t come in. That way, never the twain shall meet.
Also agree on the free water policy in E clubs, but I reckon these clubs would also be able to make a relatively decent amount on cans/bottles of soft drinks for anyone that didn’t want to drink water all night long.
As for other drugs still being illegal, as I alluded to in my previous post, I think they’d all have to be legalised, but that’s just my opinion. As we all know, just because something’s illegal doesn’t mean people aren’t gonna do it, so surely better to have it regulated so that people know exactly what they’re getting. Like I said, that’s just my opinion. Good post though man, nice one.
What’s funny is the police/ bouncers would have a much easier time with their jobs if they came across someone on mandy rather than alcohol. Who would they rather deal with, someone who is intoxicated by alcohol and wants to fight the world, or someone intoxicated by mandy who wants to love the world? E takers cause MUCH LESS trouble than drinkers, and the authorities should recognise this. All the shit that’s caused by booze and they still aggressively market it, while something like mandy which can incite love and peace, is demonised the world over. The world is backwards.
@Mezz 488112 wrote:
Have to admit I didnt know who this guy was and had to google him, great idea but could do with some more high profile participants
I agree but hough Keith Allen is a talented and funny performer as are his family as a whole, and doubtless his appearance on the show will be entertaining, he really isn’t of the best character to put across a serious case for legal change, if the show is really intended to do that and not just be another publicity stunt.
For one thing (like his daughter) he is someone what comes from a relatively middle class background (whether he admits it or not) and tries to act “street/hard”.
Throughout his life, he has been repeatedly arrested and even imprisoned not just for small drugs possession but antisocial crimes with victims such as theft and criminal damage, one such offence occuring well into his 40s or 50s, and has not been able to keep a stable personal relationship. This stuff matters when you put yourself on a platform as an activist wanting laws to be changed or people to make lifestyly changes.
Unfortunately I get the feeling that even David Cameron puts himself across as a person of better character than Keith Allen – and I am a socialist! (Even Allen, who is also left wing in his views) has said to reporters that he begrudingly admits that David Cameron has some characteristics to admire (which makes me trust Allen even less, people can switch sides, as did many of the liberal news reporters during the cannabis class C changes in the 2000s).
A better test subject (though also very middle class) would be one of the eco-warriors like George Monbiot, but he would probably decline as its “unhealthy chemicals” 😉 my greener friends are sometimes shocked by my drinking as it is (I am not even a oaf or violent when drunk).
Also Channel 4 is part funded by the Government these days. Rather bizarrely it started out as a more private company but was part nationalised by one of the last Conservative Governments!) The exact deals are complex and maybe not that well known unless you have a professional interest in broadcasting but years ago ITV was independent but stuff like their transmitters and comms links were owned by the Govt, (if they transmitted anything too controversial the Post Office / BT and later DTI could go in there with Police or even Army and have the transmitter locked off).
This infrastructure was sold off to the Americans as a company called National Transcommunications Limited (NTL), who in the 90s merged it with a cable TV company and nearly went bankrupt doing so, hence why C4 was part nationalised to take back the government control. Bear this in mind if you think they are “free independent media”.
@Portsmouth-Ritch 488147 wrote:
What’s funny is the police/ bouncers would have a much easier time with their jobs if they came across someone on mandy rather than alcohol. Who would they rather deal with, someone who is intoxicated by alcohol and wants to fight the world, or someone intoxicated by mandy who wants to love the world? E takers cause MUCH LESS trouble than drinkers, and the authorities should recognise this.
they frontline cops and bouncers and even many senior cops and security operators do know this – in some areas tried to be lenient especially during the late 90s and 2000s The problem for England is that binge culture isn’t just about booze, so when coppers and bouncers don’t nick people some think its OK to bring in 10 pills rather than 3 and other folk realise dealing is easy money.
so you not just get turf wars but accidental OD’s as well. there isnt’ a endless supply of ambulances and hospital beds.
this is from my town and after zero tolerance on both drugs and booze related violence.
Suffolk: 999 crews could be paralysed by major incident warns Unison – News – Ipswich Star
@Portsmouth-Ritch 488147 wrote:
What’s funny is the police/ bouncers would have a much easier time with their jobs if they came across someone on mandy rather than alcohol. Who would they rather deal with, someone who is intoxicated by alcohol and wants to fight the world, or someone intoxicated by mandy who wants to love the world? E takers cause MUCH LESS trouble than drinkers, and the authorities should recognise this. All the shit that’s caused by booze and they still aggressively market it, while something like mandy which can incite love and peace, is demonised the world over. The world is backwards.
It’s not just the MP’s to be fair. Alcohol giants like Diageo obviously have a vested interest in keeping their profits up, so like all other big business, they lean on governments to prevent anything that could mean their shareholders get a few quid less – but their adverts are ok cos in really small writing, they always say enjoy alcohol responsibly (obviously ignoring the paradox that alcohol makes most people very irresponsible).
@MC G-Tek 488123 wrote:
Nice post mate. Agree with what you’re saying. I’ve long been in favour of separate clubs for drinkers & E takers – I’d even go so far as to say people should be breathalysed on the door of E clubs & if they fail, they can’t come in. That way, never the twain shall meet.
we had that back in the day, albeit unofficially . OK not the breathalysers (I wouldn’t be happy about that either as I like a drink) but the harsh reality was that the business plan of clubs is so set on selling alcohol And there isn’t a great deal of profiit on soft drinks in comparison (I’m British Asian, and once worked in a shop 😉 )or a similar substance that they became money laundering places for the dealers – thus leading to turf wars and some real unpleasantness. As well as obvious gangsters, DJ’s and MCs ended up being done over, some even killed.
Also MDMA use is less harmful but isnt’ entirely benign – it can lead especially with young men to impulsive and bizzare behaviour, including inappropriate sexual behaviour. it can also cause girls to lower their inhbitions and do things they regret. There is less violence during the come up at weekends, but I’ve known people to turn near psychotic on the comedowns, I had to “defriend” many people in the 90s in real life (facebook wasn’t even invented) because of this, or I would end up drawn into their stupid acts and would also have gone to jail or mental home.
whilst the bizzare tale of a young man trying to fornicate with a ladder shown elsewhere here is not just funny but relatively harmless provided it was a robust ladder and securely positioned, one reason you get less girls than boys at raves is they can be sleazy and unpleasant places and that was still the case back in the day, its just that these girls (now older women) would rather not talk about the stuff what happened.
Even though feds turned a blind eye during the first few months/years of these places ( as they did genuinely cause less problems in the short term) both then and the NHS had a barrage of all sorts of cases resulting from the rave scene. Constant pill use can cause a variety of medium severity physical and mental health problems – this is from me and my friends own experiences in the 90s and I was just lucky. Much is simply from the lack of food and sleep that this usage pattern can cause, especially when you are young and understandably don’t make a bit of fun.
A personal example (which was why I also wanted to help that Oxfordshire drug agency) was that by 1991 (just months after the rave scene hit my town) the local surgery (in a suburban area betwen Reading and South Oxfordshire) was full up every weekday morning with all the local raver kids, presenting with all sorts of nasties, and all these kids were previously healthy young people what rarely saw the inside of a NHS facility.
By the end of 1991 I had already lost a former girlfriend to a fatal overdose. Another cute and also intelligent girl I quite liked disappeared, turned out she had done one pill too many and been sectioned. She’s probably now in her 30s but now stuck on some gutter estate as a single mother as employers won’t touch you if they learn you have self inflicted health problems and there are ways they can find out.
My parents were shit scared they would either end up burying me before them, or preparing my bag of clothes for prison because I’d done something really stupid, and the worst of that is I have a little sister and she would be judged too for her brothers behaviour. Asian lads are judged for their behaviour too, if we’re not suspected of being terrorists were are suspected of being druggies but there is sadly a fair body of evidence for both. Looking back I can understand my parents concern and I still feel bad about all the family conflicts I had back then.
My family doctor told me “you will not see 30 if you keep taking all those drugs at the rate you are”. Of course I didn’t quit altogether, but I did slow down and try and concentrate on other commitments such as work, and keep up other less controversial skills and hobbies like electronics, computers and learning languages.
I still believe strongly there should be “decriminalisation and education” along the Dutch model (another one reason I am learning Dutch) but not a free for all and I am not going to look back on the “old skool” days with rose tinted specs.
@MC G-Tek 488163 wrote:
It’s not just the MP’s to be fair. Alcohol giants like Diageo obviously have a vested interest in keeping their profits up, so like all other big business, they lean on governments to prevent anything that could mean their shareholders get a few quid less – but their adverts are ok cos in really small writing, they always say enjoy alcohol responsibly (obviously ignoring the paradox that alcohol makes most people very irresponsible).
Yea this is true I’m not anti-booze or anything, I have the odd booze up, but there is something truly special about a gathering of people who are on MD rather than booze, there’s a connection and the its just peaceful. Everyone is settles and happy, whereas with booze I find, especially lately, it starts out good but usually someone kicks off about something. I have seen best mates kicking the shit out of eachother on booze, MD would never result in such behaviour. Iv dealt with couples shouting and smashing bottles coz they have had a domestic, but when Iv had E parties nothing has ever gone wrong, everyone is one with the music and just enjoying themselves. It would be good to keep E partys and drinking parties seperate because when I’m on MD I find it quite hard to tolerate pissed people, as loved up as I am at the time, it just doesn’t mix well.
@Portsmouth-Ritch 488177 wrote:
Yea this is true I’m not anti-booze or anything, I have the odd booze up, but there is something truly special about a gathering of people who are on MD rather than booze, there’s a connection and the its just peaceful. Everyone is settles and happy, whereas with booze I find, especially lately, it starts out good but usually someone kicks off about something. I have seen best mates kicking the shit out of eachother on booze, MD would never result in such behaviour. Iv dealt with couples shouting and smashing bottles coz they have had a domestic, but when Iv had E parties nothing has ever gone wrong, everyone is one with the music and just enjoying themselves. It would be good to keep E partys and drinking parties seperate because when I’m on MD I find it quite hard to tolerate pissed people, as loved up as I am at the time, it just doesn’t mix well.
Well said that man. I’ve seen the same behaviour myself & I’m very sorry to say, contributed to it in the past. Eventually I almost completely stopped drinking alcohol because I realised what a monumental dick I became when I drank it. The only thing that doesn’t seem to have this negative effect is German beer – I guess due to their purity laws not allowing chemicals into the beer, or maybe just because I’m very aware of how alcohol affects me these days, so I pace myself & watch my behaviour more.
Yea same here mate, I ended up in jail for a short stretch because of booze, it can be lethal! Yea the chemicals make it 10x worse Im sure of that, I used to be a stella drinker too, not good haha.
@MC G-Tek 488179 wrote:
The only thing that doesn’t seem to have this negative effect is German beer – I guess due to their purity laws not allowing chemicals into the beer, or maybe just because I’m very aware of how alcohol affects me these days, so I pace myself & watch my behaviour more.
I was never violent on booze (if I want to be violent, which is very rare these days I will do it sober as you can make sure you win and escape detection and/or prepare for reprisals) as I’m not a big guy so this is important. However in my teens I admit I would have still done stupid and anti social things like vandalism whilst pissed, but at least on the come up of E never considered this. (comedowns, unfortunately were a different matter, but curiously as I got older I stopped having comedowns).
Also good English ale (beware as there is also processed crap sold under “English” type names) is just as pure as what the Germans have (their beer is good though) hence why real ale pubs are peaceful (not everyone there is a old man with a beard either). They are the only places outside a rave where a man 5 times your size bumps into you and says “sorry” (actually that this dude managed to fit into the bar seat at all was impressive) – though I have had to calm down my drinking because it led to excessive weight gain (I was at near 70 kilos at one point). Also it does not wreck your stomach if you have been taking chemicals at some point.
However (and I don’t mean to be like some old daily mail type codger) I do feel that one change has been in society and has nothing to do with any substances. Even 10-20 years ago folk had a bit more of a sense of shame and guilt, doing something like spoiling your best friends party due to having a public argument with your missus or being arrested for non drugs offences what did have real victims or just generally acting like a complete oaf was seen as shameful even in a young or alternative minded peer group.
Today a lot of people (even some my age) simply don’t give a shit about how they are viewed by others.
Portsmouth-Ritch – Drinking wife beater (stella) in this country is fatal dude. It’s brewed by Whitbread (I think) under licence, but they use English ingredients & that cocks it up somehow in comparison to the proper Belgian stuff, which is actually a nice beer.
General Lighting – As regards the English ales, I was in Cornwall last summer & actually tried a couple of the local ales down there and they were really good. It was evident they lacked the chemical crap you get in commercial lagers, especially Fosters, damn that stuff’s bad for ya!
Not only is it now proven to be safer than drinking and smoking it would also be safer if they legalized it and actually allowed production as it wouldn’t be cut with any shit either.
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Forums › Drugs › Ecstasy & MDMA › Legalise it !!!!
