Party Vibe

@mungo1972 417681 wrote:

If ever there was a war that was justified WW2 was it , okay i didn’t agree with Iraq and i think we should pull out of Afghanistan . However the members of the armed forces don’t get to choose which war they fight , no thats the Prime minister and we vote them in .

the people of this country helped caused the Iraq war – not just by their voting but their consumption patterns, particularly fuel.

Consider how quick folk were to protest in 2000 when it wasn’t just fuel tax but the Middle East countries putting up the prices.

Blair took a big gamble with the Iraq war, and yes, he fucked up big time.

However I bet if by some miracle Iraq and the Middle East population hadn’t been able to fight back and instead totally caved in to Western business interests (even if much of the population there was massacred) and it had led petrol to be 50p a litre, people would be saying he was a hero and would put up a statue like Churchill in London..

I think some times some people just want to mock anything in a uniform just because its a uniform . well thats my rant …..all calm now lol 🙂

I see that a lot against even the Fire Brigade and the Health Service – and then folk wonder why when they are needed at somewhere like a rave the Police get called in for safety..

@mungo1972 417695 wrote:

Hi General Lighting ,
Yep Blair is guilty of war crimes as far as im concerned but will this investigation do anything to him …..i doubt it . I don’t think comparing Winston Churchill to Blair is a good one , Winston Churchill in my eyes was a good man …..Blair isnt but i see what you mean .

Churchill was a good man because he won – and much of the worst parts of World War II have been glossed over by the time elapsed. History is written by the victors. As you know I have an interest in other European languages and I’ve been reading stuff about World War II in other nations in their language and they don’t glorify it in the gung-ho way England does, especially in nations like NL which were bitterly divided and as many folk supported fascism as opposed it (the spectre of fascism still blights continental Europe to this day).

If Blair had dug his heels in and not gone to war, he’d get blamed for the rise in fuel prices and been voted out and another politician would have started the war anyway, especially with our co-dependence on the USA economy (which was another hangover from WW II). One the recent politicians, maybe even Gordon Brown, actually had the balls to say to the people “we started this war with our American allies to help British economic interests”.

if actions in starting the war had “won” a decisive victory which led to petrol/gasoline prices dropping and stopped the economic depression happening (even temporarily), and the Middle Easterners had been made so shit scared not to even attempt reprisals such as terrorism, most people in the West, even the ones wouldn’t have cared how many “enemy” soldiers or civillians died in the war.

This is probably why our nations are still so deluded to carry on fighting…

@mungo1972 417709 wrote:

. So like Iraq and Afghanistan ….people shouldn’t give shit to them …no direct it at the Politicians that sent them there in the first place .

Yes, and better still look at their own actions which gave the politicians the justification to start the war. I still don’t think any other 21st century politician in a modern, democratic European nation would start a war if they didn’t feel they had the people behind them. The people of this country have as much blood on their hands as any soldiers, yet either they refuse to admit it or they think that war is a “quick fix” solution to the problems.

@mungo1972 417727 wrote:

Hi General Lighting ,
Yes your probably right , although as its been said the war was sexed up ….the media is a great way to make people believe one view . Professor Kelly didnt agree and next he ends up doing himself in …..!!!! really .

he was as bad as the rest, just that he lost in the power games.

He didn’t walk out of his highly paid MOD job before disagreeing with his orders, and earlier in his life walked away from a career in science for agriculture, openly choosing to join Porton Down where he would have been responsible for many human and animal experiments to further the cause of warfare. Just because he decided to help the “good guys” and join some wierd hippy religion doesn’t erase what he would have been responsible for, and in any case he could have easily left the MOD and sought out a safe haven before stating his personal views.

He’s lucky those in power didn’t make him suffer more for betraying them.

all that said, I still reckon if whatever Government in power in 2003 had just been honest and said “we are going to war in Iraq to fight for oil and bring down fuel prices” they would have got support, and the military also would have had more public support. After all thats pretty much what they have done in America.

this is true, but as people won’t share resources fairly its currently inevitable.

getting back to the Russians, they have a good powerful army, good strong leaders and don’t take any shit – yet even their transport hubs get blown up. I would not even discount the chance of CBRN weaponry being used in our lifetime – maybe not in a modern European nation as there is too much surveillance, but in one of the more volatile areas of the Middle East or former USSR.

@mungo1972 417735 wrote:

Hi General Lighting ,
that would be scary if NBC ( nuclear biological Chemical ) was used in any city no matter where it is . Now how any one could do that to other people is beyond me , there is no nice death from any of those !!!! . Lets hope it never happens

I think that big rich cities and countries will prevent its use due to the use of surveillance and security forces – and particularly use of fissile material (as there are radiation detectors all around Europe anyway) – but other forms of this warfare will end up being used (maybe already are ) in less stable countries.

After the weaponry and tactics spans not just all the stuff devised by boffins but really simple and brutally effective attacks such as dispersing quanties poisonous chemicals used regularly in industry into the atmosphere , or deliberately contaminating water and destroying sanitation infrastructure.

yes, they calmed down after the 1950s but in those times the real risks of many substances (including LSD, which was also tested there) wasn’t even known – and there is a lot of confusion because of secrecy the NHS also used nearby facilities for other public health research, leading to a great variety of conspiracy theories. This does not detract from the facts that this place was for many years used to build better weapons of war, the technology of which has been now sold across the world (even to our enemies!)

unfortunately we are dealing with people who are angry enough not even to give a shit about their own lifes, let alone the Geneva convention. Luckily CBRN weapons which do not require large quantities of source materials are still hard to make, and modern health and safety laws restrict the carriage of dangerous chemicals through transport points simply because they are dangerous rather than any paranoia over terrorism!

I actually legitimately use a variety of chemicals which can be unsafe when I work on some kinds of electronics hardware and some of them are becoming harder or more expensive to get delivered because of safety precautions, but it may be a price we have to pay.

There is a risk from sabotage of industrial premises but to be fair in Britain there is a fair bit of vigilance against this. I know whenever there is a big industrial fire in East Anglia the authorities automatically check to make sure its not deliberate – as with all the layoffs/redundancies even disgruntled employees can cause this stuff, but most are genuine industrial accidents.

They already have – on many occasions, and have found that no one race or culture is responsible.

As well as the IRA being active on the mainland until the 1990s (the war continues in NI), In the early 2000s, after 9/11 and just before the 2003 war, Police in SE England foiled viable attempts by the extreme right to bomb “multicutural” events.

in 1999 the Soho nail bomber had successfully targeted London (this being the largest terrorist attack on London subsequent to the IRA’s attacks in the 90s and previous to 2005-07-07).

Young lads were also arrested in Norfolk in the mid 2000s for trying to blow up a house where the Portugese were living in with a pipe bomb. There was another similar attack in Suffolk but this was just a dispute between families (the use of IED/incendiary devices in such disputes is rare but does happen).

Most recent Islamic extremist attacks have in fact been foiled or have not been particularly successful/viable devices – and just a couple of years ago a white supremacist activist from my old city (reading) was arrested up here in Lowestoft with a bag of bombs – my suspicion was he meant to come down this way, but got on the wrong train – and then started being abusive to the train staff and got himself nicked before he could do any damage!