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MDMA deaths: Not educating users on how to test their drugs KILLS, claim DanceSafe

Forums Drugs Ecstasy & MDMA MDMA deaths: Not educating users on how to test their drugs KILLS, claim DanceSafe

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  • Was a bit surprised to see Dancesafe from the USA being mentioned in the article rather than Trimbos (NL) or the UK Green Party, both of which were strong advocates of drug testing as harm reduction; though Trimbos has in recent times become more prevention focused (especially the English language material) – and the Green Party’s current policies (published for the 2015 elections) had not been updated since 2006 and only advocated an independent testing lab which charged for the service, unlike NL ones which do the tests for free but are only available in some areas although they have managed to expand the regions covered and introduce new testing methods that provide quicker although marginally less accurate results (still enough to unearth PMA and other nasties)

    The Greens thus came across as either unaware that WEDINOS (which is funded by the Welsh NHS/GIG and some Councils in Wales) had been operating a similar service to NL regions (albeit within the constraints of a relatively hostile environment) for a good few years or unwilling to credit an organisation which (according to its opponents) is allegedly linked to the Labour Party.

    Then again I once had to explain the 1990s MDMA/rave culture to a local Green Party candidate; he was to be fair way too young to have experienced any of it but I was slightly surprised the older generations in Suffolk had not discussed drugs policy with him (some areas are full with middle aged hippies and even elect Green councillors in otherwise Tory strongholds)

    Maybe they realize you have almost no chance of getting your samples tested if you send them to WEDINOS.

    I had a look at recent results and it is unclear what WEDINOS are and aren’t accepting even with the policy change (which appears to be to prevent NPS vendors trying to use them as a cheap testing method).

    There are oddities in the numbering schemes (two different ones being used) and a strong bias towards Welsh postcodes being accepted but there appear to still be some English and Scottish samples getting through although considerably less than I have seen on previous visits to the published results section.

    Although the UK viewed by the EU, UN, NATO etc as a single country it is to some extent 4 separate countries in one (possibly the only nation in the European continent to have this status since the fall of the Soviet Union).

    The NHS in each UK country is funded and run separately giving some autonomy to what services are available. Although the NHS to provide services to any UK or EU national who requires treatment; there is a grey area over whether WEDINOS actually has to test samples from England, Scotland or NI; although I don’t think anyone working there wants to reject “foreign” samples I wouldn’t be surprised if they are coming under pressure to only accept “non civillian” submissions from the other countries (government agencies/police have always had other internal mail/despatch services independent of Royal Mail) and funding pressures – the Dutch testing groups have had the same problems particularly in the Calvinist Protestant areas (similar to Southern USA) that elect more right wing parties (which not surprisingly then seem to end up with folk keeling over from the PMMA pills).

    They test whatever they want tbh. I’ve seen results for compounds which based on the crap written on the form should never have been tested. Whatever their purpose is, they ain’t really helping anyone who actually needs that help.

    TBH this plagues any research, data collection that involves “science or maths” carried out in England and Wales irrespective of whether it is the public or private sector.

    Two jobs I’ve had over the years involved working on fairly large teams dedicated to trying to exact some useful information out of years of raw data containing all manner of flaws so it could be transferred to other databases; whilst at the same time dealing with budget cuts and/or market changes.

    I worked at one place for about 6 years and 4 at the other (until I found more interesting jobs) and neither of them had completed the task satisfactorily – the private company ended up downsizing much of its entire UK operations and shifting the remains to Bangalore where much was automated by software and has since improved performance and not even had any data breaches – but this is not allowed under UK/EU law for public services (or feasible in healthcare; the situation being worsened by paranoia over “immigrants” which makes team work harder as well as recruiting staff who have some clue what they should be doing and want to provide a useful service).

    Even if the whole lot were made legal tomorrow and testing centres were funded across the UK this end of the country would still likely have the same problems (you’d at least be more likely to be able to send samples to Edinburgh or further North and get some sensible results)

    TBH GL, I understand your point, I just don’t understand the point of WEDINOS anymore. Never mind the many people I’ve seen say their sample was rehected for fuck all, I’ve had 4 rejected myself. I was so desperate to have 1 compound tested I had 2 other people send samples in, one sent 2 samples in with different compound names, and not a fucking single one was tested.

    As they still seem to be pubishing Welsh results I suspect they have indeed been instructed to restrict services to Wales or even a certain part of it.

    However Welsh postcodes including those of more populated areas also are missing; the ones which do get through seem to be very near the hospital which runs the service (maybe via rehabs/heddlu?) and only samples from bits of NW England and a fraction of London suburbs are getting through. The form does have various small sections at the bottom in which the absence or presence of certain data could well be used as a selection criteria if they wanted to do so (otherwise they would not be included in the first place).

    This surely contravenes various EU and UN recommendations or laws for both healthcare and human rights (the “postcode lottery” for health services is seen globally as a big flaw of the NHS in comparison to similar services worldwide). Then again our country still appears to make it more difficult for young women to access family planning services (not just terminations) on religious grounds if they are in NI.

    If suspect if anyone in charge at Cardiff(?) admits to it they probably would be stitched up by Tories in London and accused of shit-stirring before the Brexit votes and not just WEDINOS but other healthcare in Wales could be put at risk. I’ve noticed even Scotland which presumably could just as easily set up a similar service (they have enough smart people to run it) and more autonomy from England has not done so….

    I’m more of the mind that users not educating themselves kills them. Although having lots of education would preclude the user having to have the motivation to become learned.

    Gonna send you both a PM with a link in whicj I can’t really share here cos it’s not even my post to begin with but it’ll give you both some idea of the problem with this.

    @Shakyamuni 982009 wrote:

    I’m more of the mind that users not educating themselves kills them. Although having lots of education would preclude the user having to have the motivation to become learned.

    added to the UKs unique problems (although perhaps not unlike the confusion in the USA between state and federal law albeit on a smaller scale) this appears to be exactly why there is an unusually high level of middle class professional young people who live in “posh” areas going down with serious/fatal ODs worldwide; even considering todays young people actually take less drugs than my generation did (the bulk of which survived even if some unfortunately now suffer longer term physical and mental health conditions) and even in the harshest countries harm reduction info is available and reading it hardly if ever attracts the authorities (when there is far worse happening such as terrorism and war)

    With what remains of the EDM scene (the impression I get is the “boom” from the USA is already going tits up especially as the only reason big European promoters have moved there is to avoid increasingly scrutiny and regulations in their own countries) a combination of double standards from councils and some local communities plus a stubborn adherence to prohibition is also helping kill a lot of people.

    Another “postcode lottery” issue in the UK is the remaining festivals and club events are all balkanised into relatively low income areas where the NHS staff are already overstretched but the councils are dependent on the tourism revenue so grudgingly put up with the drugs.

    TBH that is even the case in NL; gedoben where the term “gedoogsbeleid” comes from and is widely mistranslated as a positive situation, only means toleration in the sense of putting up with an unwanted situation as lesser of two evils with the aim of ultimately reducing occurence of that situation,

    To willingly accept something of potentially mutual benefit to wider society is translated as “accepteren”. NL which is held up to be flagship progressive European countryu is about half divided between those who genuinely accept drug users and possible benefits from this use and those who wish to see these social experiments downsized or totally reversed. Other formerly liberal countries like SE once had decrim and reversed it following short term rises in use/addiction and a public backlash.

    I don’t see it’s purpose tbh. If they want to know what’s “emerging” they should watch vendors and forums where that sort of thing is discussed and stop getting people to waste time, money and compounds having the random chance of a test result or a fuck off and no you can’t have a reason.

    @tryptameanie 982019 wrote:

    I don’t see it’s purpose tbh. If they want to know what’s “emerging” they should watch vendors and forums where that sort of thing is discussed and stop getting people to waste time, money and compounds having the random chance of a test result or a fuck off and no you can’t have a reason.

    they should at least have the courage to say “this service is now only for Welsh users within CF** postcodes” and explain why. The Dutch labs aren’t having an easy time at the moment either but any service restrictions or changes to testing methods are immediately explained on their websites (albeit in Dutch).

    Unfortunately my Welsh is very poor (I did try learning about 10 years ago as I considered moving there for work) so I can’t confirm if they have actually announced other stuff on their Welsh twitter or websites but if they are restricting the service to other UK countries there should be some transparency.

    @General Lighting 982013 wrote:

    added to the UKs unique problems (although perhaps not unlike the confusion in the USA between state and federal law albeit on a smaller scale) this appears to be exactly why there is an unusually high level of middle class professional young people who live in “posh” areas going down with serious/fatal ODs worldwide; even considering todays young people actually take less drugs than my generation did (the bulk of which survived even if some unfortunately now suffer longer term physical and mental health conditions) and even in the harshest countries harm reduction info is available and reading it hardly if ever attracts the authorities (when there is far worse happening such as terrorism and war)

    With what remains of the EDM scene (the impression I get is the “boom” from the USA is already going tits up especially as the only reason big European promoters have moved there is to avoid increasingly scrutiny and regulations in their own countries) a combination of double standards from councils and some local communities plus a stubborn adherence to prohibition is also helping kill a lot of people.

    Another “postcode lottery” issue in the UK is the remaining festivals and club events are all balkanised into relatively low income areas where the NHS staff are already overstretched but the councils are dependent on the tourism revenue so grudgingly put up with the drugs.

    TBH that is even the case in NL; gedoben where the term “gedoogsbeleid” comes from and is widely mistranslated as a positive situation, only means toleration in the sense of putting up with an unwanted situation as lesser of two evils with the aim of ultimately reducing occurence of that situation,

    To willingly accept something of potentially mutual benefit to wider society is translated as “accepteren”. NL which is held up to be flagship progressive European countryu is about half divided between those who genuinely accept drug users and possible benefits from this use and those who wish to see these social experiments downsized or totally reversed. Other formerly liberal countries like SE once had decrim and reversed it following short term rises in use/addiction and a public backlash.

    I know a guy whose 19 year old son went down from a O.D. because the diacetyalmorphine was too good to be injected. I guess he didn’t get the disclaimer or didn’t believe it that you had to smoke it. There is no stigma to drug use anymore but no one lets you know what not to do as much as they should. You have to come to places like this where there are people who’ve seen it all and can give you good advice or you’re fortunate enough to meet someone in the flesh who knows and takes you under their wing.

    @tryptameanie 982011 wrote:

    Gonna send you both a PM with a link in whicj I can’t really share here cos it’s not even my post to begin with but it’ll give you both some idea of the problem with this.

    I want the link lol

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Forums Drugs Ecstasy & MDMA MDMA deaths: Not educating users on how to test their drugs KILLS, claim DanceSafe