Party Vibe

the precursors to the cathinones were never restricted from import into the EU and appear to have other legitimate uses so are less likely to attract suspicion. Nor is there any real shortage of scientific equipment to build a lab. I’ve seen videos showing that at least one legal highs lab is simply a converted office block with basic equipment found in any uni or even further education science department.

I suspect the real issue is a skills shortage amongst younger Europeans compared to Asia – although I’ve heard rumours in the UK that SOCA along with the unis put surveillance on chemistry students to ensure they aren’t using their knowledge for questionable purposes.

Whilst I don’t think humankind will completely destroy itself fighting over resources, I expect the economic depression will stall scientific and technological progress (and resources are still being depleted) so the new technology will not get as much chance to develop as the scientists and engineers are forced by necessity to work on tried and tested energy, transport and healthcare solutions – the only innovations will be developments of these such as the perfection of electric vehicles or improvments on existing pharmaceuticals.

A current example is President Obama massively scaling back the NASA space programme, lots of other scientific research in the USA is also having funding slashed.

TBH I think there is more chance that plastics production will return to the UK and EU from nations like China to reduce transportation costs (as chemicals take up less space than finished articles) and chemicals to make amfetamine-type stimulants might be diverted from this.

This might even be overlooked by the authorities provided the scientists and factory workers still work hard and thats as good as it will ever get (I suspect its why China hasn’t clamped down on “legal highs” as Chinese people like them as much as Westerners!)

@Iacchus 388888 wrote:

In the short term I think you are right to some extent but once we’ve nailed nuclear fusion resources are going to become much less of an issue – with unlimited energy and nanotechnology/biotechnology you can pretty much do anything,

Unfortunately I think humanity is in the next few decades much more likely to to destroy enough of the World (probably the middle East) with conventional and nuclear weaponry to render useless the remaining resources required to guarantee an advance of technology. A permanent breakdown in international relations will put an end to the non-competitive, non-commercial discourse between the scientists of various nations which stops vested interests stifling innovations, even if the boffins want peace the corporates, soldiers and governments will overrule them or restrict access to the science due to military arms races as in the Cold War.

The race against time to preserve energy sources is already lost – opportunities existed 3-4 decades ago and were overlooked -ironically due to the distractions of the drugs/music counterculture as well as abundant energy (allowing the consumer society to hijack this) overriding the work of the original environmental movement. This will not make humans extinct and they can survive for many centuries more, but humanity has already peaked in its social and technological progress…

if society was progressing drugs would have been legal by now but there are too many people who are a danger to themselves and others when overusing them to the point we are lucky that alcohol remains tolerated.. prohibition laws in the 21st century are no longer as much fuelled by moral or religious dogma but by concerns over the economic cost of problematic drug use due to users lack of self-regulation.

@Iacchus 388894 wrote:

heh no way dude there is not going to be some catastrophic nuclear war over resources shit just doesnt go down like that any more. we’ve learnt that invasion for resources just isnt cost effective any more, not since pre world war times (america hadnt quite got the message and is currently learning the hard way from iraq/afgan).

there won’t be a catastrophic war, but there will still be war. Iraq and Afghanistan have already been going on for longer than World War II.

I don’t think there will be much more nuclear devices used than against the Japs,but there is still a risk of small scale dirty bombs by militant religious groups to deny everyone the use of contentious oil resources.

even in some “peaceful” countries in South Asia people are getting killed every day for various reasons.

Also the same already available freedom of communication and open source technology can be used and is used by small single issue groups to make weaponry and IED’s powerful enough to target rival groups, even by diverting domestic chemicals or commonly used fuels (TBH I think this is the real reason UK chemistry students are watched more so than the risk of them making drugs).

Not doom and gloom but reality. Even a complete shift to renewables will not cope with current demand for energy. demand has to be reduced as well as production increased. building new nuclear plants takes time and resources before they come on line (I don’t even think there is a net gain).

hypermobility such as cheap foreign travel or even being able to hop into a private car and drive 200 miles on a whim will come to an end and with it a lot of interaction between different groups. Things we take for granted such as the internet being available 24/7 may not be assued in the future (at least its more data intensive aspects like youtube and facebook).

The new balance will be with much less than we are used to – enough to survive but not the surpluses Westerners have been used to, and it is these surpluses what fund the music, nightlife and entertainment industry over and above essentials such as food, shelter, transport and infrastructure.

Even in a relatively peaceful, prosperous country like the UK , the “emerging technologies” will only be a rehash of what we should have done in the 1960s and 1970s but with newer tinges (such as different battery technologies) rather than high tech utopia. I expect life will be tolerable but not as “free” as the late 20th or early 21st century – people will be expected to work far harder, even at jobs they don’t particularly enjoy (factory or agricultural labouring) and put much more back into society. Music and nightlife won’t disappear but events will become smaller and shorter as people need to have energy for work – and even if drugs are tolerated those what take them may not be guaranteed NHS treatment for their self-inflicted conditions so people take less risks if they want to survive. This is no different to South China today so maybe it won’t even be that much of a hardship..

@Iacchus 389006 wrote:

You obviously know a lot of facts about what’s going on in the world but I think you’re having trouble seeing the bigger picture. It’s quite obvious from many conversations with you that you are stuck in ‘the good old days’ mentality and are extrapolating fluxuations in circumstances to be overall trends towards hard times when they are in fact merely ‘thermal noise’.

no, the bigger picture is that there is no “brighter” future, just a future where cornucopian fantasies of continued easy resource availability and continuing growth/progress are no longer fit for purpose. it won’t happen immediately hence people still living business as usual, it will be survivable and with some potential good aspects) but some people (i.e most of us alive today) won’t see all of it because they won’t be alive anyway (not due to catastrophe, just natural causes).

The current economic depression will continue as a slow decline, removing the funding for more research projects and new infrastructure. Capitalism for all its destructiveness cannot just be dismantled in a few days without instability including bloodshed, the money economy will endure (the best case would be important stuff nationalised and backed by tax money), so other than a few “philanthropists” who often have hidden agendas, People simply aren’t going to give away resources to other countries nor work for free.

Nuclear fusion projects have been going on for 20-30 years and still not delivered. They are most likely to have the funding to complete them withdrawn at the last hurdle due to other necessities (possibly building fission-based NPPs), as has alreadu happened to many renewable energy projects in the USA. The only nation claming to have a viable nuclear fusion power station in North Korea! Even a fission based NPP isn’t as competitive in time-to-market terms (i.e being able to deliver electric) as conventional power stations, and this must be sorted first before electric vehicles can become viable.

Restriction of use of private transport is already happening in areas such as East Anglia where fuel costs are rising – but as yet no equivalent public transport has arrived (buses and their drivers in those areas are like the old “on the buses” comedy film but without the laughs)

A lot of the population is not psychologically prepared to react to crises in life or “forced” changes (just consider how the recent rise in Islamic extremism fuelled by the war has wiped out 25 years of multiculturalism in England and Europe). whatver boffins might do, ordinary people can and do react wholly irrationally – there has been a 320% rise in domestic violence and a 110% rise in road accidents in Alabama. People even get paranoid over recycling bins and being “forced” to look after the environment!

Governments will find they need to keep their populations in order, hence all the tinfoil hat paranoia over “one world governments” (a form of which may be inevitable to ensure any form of social progress or even stability).

its perfectly possible for humans to survive with the technology of the 1960s to the present day much of which has not been efficiently used to its full potential – (for instance the electric train from EA to London could be made vastly more efficient). To make viable electric vehicles (not the experimental cars being sold whose long term viability is not yet proven) means switching focus to a lighter, slower vehicle or moving to electric bicycles, and govt making streets safe for these like in NL.

but many “gary boys” will bleat about the “poor motorist being targeted”. It might even involve shutting off television after 01:00 like what used to happen to save electricity so vehicles can be charged (would be a good way of reducing demand!). but we’d posibbly get a “reverse Swampy” from the petrolheads sabotaging projects (like how speed cameras are attacked), until he is nicked and dealt with but then more foilheads will bleat about freedom.

Whatever goes on in foreign countries, the UK and EU is becoming dumbed down , we are not producing enough of the scientists and engineers needed to drive forward these technologies. there are clever folk here but there aren’t enough compared to foreigners due to young people thinking science subjects are “difficult” or “nerdy”. The poor quality of some of todays rave sound systems is already a clear sign of this!

Even the present day situation with drugs (the lack of chemists in EU and the UK, the binge culture and petulance of users when they find their favourite substance is finally made illegal) shows the start of the decline – which is happening now and in our lifetimes. if life is that good why are a lot of the teens and youths bingeing on drugs and alcohol (I don’t mean sensible use, but self-destructive levels) to “get away” from its “pressures”, even know when there are still loads of positive opportunities left for young people? I was seeing that every day amongst the local raver crowd here..