Forums › Life › Spirituality, Morality & Religion › Objective morality
Does anyone actually believe in objective right and wrong? It’s rare in my friendship group but I sometimes meet people who think that there are some things that would be wrong even if there were no sentient beings in the universe to hold any opinions on the matter.
@Clusterfrog 454578 wrote:
Does anyone actually believe in objective right and wrong?
people do but I do not.
i don’t but i thought most people do… probably due to lack of philosophizing.
I know *people* do I was asking you lot 😛
I am not 100% what it means TBH – I’m an engineer rather than a philosophy student and looked on google and there is all god squad stuff I don’t trust and more things from what appear to be students/intellectuals I don’t understand.
I mean is ‘right and wrong’ just an opinion, or does it have an independent existence. As an engineer who talks of ‘god squad’ stuff its unlikely you believe in objective morality 😛
I think it’s possible to overthink these things and come to some pretty depressing conclusions (like that we only ever do good for ultimately selfish reasons and self-fulfilment and there’s no such thing as true altruism). I think the best way is just try to be a sound person and not an arsehole.
I think its just a opinion formed a variety of things – the consensus of what country/culture you live in, how much an individual chooses to obey laws (and also the risk of being punished) and perhaps a faith group or wider community if you belong to one.
@cheeseweasel 454594 wrote:
I think it’s possible to overthink these things and come to some pretty depressing conclusions (like that we only ever do good for ultimately selfish reasons and self-fulfilment and there’s no such thing as true altruism). I think the best way is just try to be a sound person and not an arsehole.
ah yes but are you being not an arsehole according to your own standards or objective standards 😛
And I don’t buy this whole ‘there’s no such thing as true altruism’ thing I see it all the time. Saying you you invalidate altruism by enjoying it doesn’t make any sense.
@General Lighting 454595 wrote:
I think its just a opinion formed a variety of things – the consensus of what country/culture you live in, how much an individual chooses to obey laws (and also the risk of being punished) and perhaps a faith group or wider community if you belong to one.
so subjective then! I’m probably wasting my time I doubt anyone on partyvibe believes in objective truth or morality
@Clusterfrog 454597 wrote:
ah yes but are you being not an arsehole according to your own standards or objective standards 😛
And I don’t buy this whole ‘there’s no such thing as true altruism’ thing I see it all the time. Saying you you invalidate altruism by enjoying it doesn’t make any sense.
The last sentence was meant to be a bit tongue-in-cheek. I mean not being an arsehole by not doing anything twattish like beating people up, lying, stealing, cheating, being rude/selfish etc. 😉
And as for altruism, would people honestly really still give to charity if they got no sense of self-fulfilment from it at all? If that little smug sense of self-worth that comes from setting up a monthly donation wasn’t there? These are the sort of questions I don’t really care about as at the end of the day I’m happy and charities get my money.
@cheeseweasel 454599 wrote:
The last sentence was meant to be a bit tongue-in-cheek. I mean not being an arsehole by not doing anything twattish like beating people up, lying, stealing, cheating, being rude/selfish etc. 😉
And as for altruism, would people honestly really still give to charity if they got no sense of self-fulfilment from it at all? If that little smug sense of self-worth that comes from setting up a monthly donation wasn’t there? These are the sort of questions I don’t really care about as at the end of the day I’m happy and charities get my money.
Yeah people would, less people would absolutely but still some people would. The sort of people who go to rescue someone being attacked with no thought for themselves, not through any plan to feel smug about it but due to genuine desire to help. The sort of people who lay down their lives for people they care about or even for the good of humanity.
@cheeseweasel 454599 wrote:
And as for altruism, would people honestly really still give to charity if they got no sense of self-fulfilment from it at all? If that little smug sense of self-worth that comes from setting up a monthly donation wasn’t there? These are the sort of questions I don’t really care about as at the end of the day I’m happy and charities get my money.
Whilst I tend not to give cash sums to charities these days (I might have done so after the SE Asian tsumani in 2004) I didn’t do so for “self-fulfillment”, just thought it was the right thing to do because it is my ancestors lands.
I also purchased from a old sailor who had a random stall in a shopping centre (in SE England, 150 miles away from the North Sea Coast) a foam rubber rat on a string. This was being sold in aid of the families of fishermen who had drowned in the North Sea. Although I did visit the North Essex coast around that time, it wasn’t for any nautical reasons (I do have much respect for those who go to sea in that area) – but I wanted the rat for a cat toy as one of our cats had gone missing and the remaining one was feeling insecure and being bullied by another cat.
I brought the rat home, showed it to my cat, who promptly ran away and hid (every time I brought it out).
In the end I ended up having to caterwaul the bullying cat away from my garden myself a few times, and meow with my own cat, which did actually improve his self esteem – though my mum and sister complained because both of us would meow when they were cooking and we were hungry and we would make quite a racket. I also started to meow with (and at) other cats and still do today, especially to warn kittens and juvenile cats playing at or the road against the danger of traffic. I think however this practice (though not as uncommon as I thought) is more likely to diagnosed as clinical lycanthropy than viewed as altruism :laugh_at:
i dont, but most of the people i know do
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Forums › Life › Spirituality, Morality & Religion › Objective morality