Party Vibe

fair point

The Highland clearances actually had less to do with the English colonial drive than many think… (I’m Scots btw – it’s nice to blame the English, but unfortunately this isn’t really their fault).

Mostly it was started because the Duke of Sutherland wanted more land, and decided this was the best way to do it (Sutherland is in the NW of Scotland). As with much of Scots history, we were stitching ourselves up far more efficiently than anyone else has ever been able to…:hopeless::hopeless::hopeless: (something Scots do well throughout our history, and I would argue are still doing with the current parliament:you_crazy:you_crazy:you_crazy).

If you look at the most important battle of the uprising (Culloden), even though it is ostensibly the British government on one side, and Bonny prince Charlie’s on the other, the actual troop make up is less defined along nationlistic lines. The government troops included scots from many clans (including Campbell, Ross, Sutherland, Kerr, Cunningham etc etc), while the Bonny prince’s side included 300 English Episcopalians from Manchester…

Trouble is (as was the case with the famine thread), historical fact and emotion are rarely good bedfellows, and fact gets distorted by what people want to believe. A good example of this is the history of Scottish tartans, which aren’t really Scottish at all, and certainly don’t go back to antiquity as is usually claimed (tartans were invented in the Victorian era, as a romanticising of Scots clans. Even plaid has no evidence of use before the Rebellion in Scotland – so Wallace certainly didn’t wear tartans. Geezers painted blue and wearing tartan skirts does make a better story though…:wink:)

If you want a decent history of the clearances, try here.

i think its clear that MrAHC set out to destroy the thread from the outset. he didnt want the subject debated, and said so, then proceeded to escalate teh emotive and agressive stand points without really addressing the heart of the arguement.

in my eyes its a shame that he has manipulated us into not discussing what is a very important topic. and while no-one was suggesting for a second that there would be resolution of the conflict on a forum, airing such a vital debate is what forums are all about, and hopefully the thread will serve to educate those with a limited grasp of what the conflict between ireland and england really entails.

while globaloons rule of thumb is a good general one, sometimes it is clear that teh person and not their arguements are the problem. in thsi case MrAHC was intent on destroying rational dabate. its a shame that he was allowed to do so.