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  • I’m mixed on this.

    Yeah the terrorism law is fundamentally wrong, but if we’re talking about police throwing their weight around then this is hardly it. The Scottish copper in plain clothes seemed relatively reasonable, yes he could have let it go, but so could the cameraman!

    As a reference to the terrorism act, yes it points out how unfair and totalitarian it is.

    But that was a nicer, more polite and reasonable copper than I’ve ever met. The majority I’ve come across would have grabbed his phone, deleted all evidence and then violently arrested him on some jumped-up charge.

    I’d agree with you on the first copper – he did seem decent enough, although the fact he threatened to call in ‘special branch’ speaks volumes.

    Edit: in fact – the issue here is the fact they used the terrorism act as a reason for viewing the footage – so I’ll back track on my previous statement – if filming the outside of a building is enough to enforce this law then I’m sorry but it is complete and utter nonsense.

    The second video however, is plain and simple brutality. You could argue they were ‘asking for it’ but we all know the real reason, they simply didn’t want to be filmed. As for not disclosing their number, as far as I know it is illegal not to do so… this was also the case in teh G20 ‘riots’ – anonymity of the police so individuals could not be held accountable for their actions.

    hmm – I’ve taken loads of photos of telephone exchanges, electricity infrastructure and railway/transport stuff and never been challenged – and I’m British Asian! I am however careful what resolutions/angles I use and don’t use big SLR cameras.

    I also don’t want random scum using a photo I took to try and rob copper out of a exchange or substation because my employers in a rural area need reliable telecoms and leccy!

    I think the problem here is the Terrorism Act is being wrongly used when there should be other more commonsense laws about privacy and security balancing the right to photograph something or someone against the responsibilities of being a photographer.

    If someone is carrying out a controversial (but legal) job they still have the right to their security and safety at work there have been precedents of businesses (particularly restaurants in the East London and Essex areas) having photographs of them used to locate entry and exit points and the businesses subsequently being violently robbed.

    I wonder how many of the photographers, (most of whom tend to be “freelance journos”) with all their high value camera equipment, would be happy to have me standing outside their place of work or their house taking photos of their front door and all their windows, and what car they drive, perhaps a few of their family members, or their work colleagues? Even if I just had an interest in architecture (which I do) or just wanted “candid photos of local British people” would they be happy about it or would they feel uneasy and want to know what I was up to?

    What if I disagreed with some sort of photo one of these dudes had taken and wanted to get info on them hence taking my pictures? (which is the justification a lot of “activist photographers” use). there’s also a lot of voyeurs/stalkers about, and a lot of instances of high resolution pictures of people being used without their permission. The Terrorism Act isn’t the correct way of dealing with this (in many cases its a civil matter) but some balance should be found.

    even today compared to many foreign country’s Britain is much more lax about what you can and can’t take photos of…

    OTOH I don’t even share my rave pictures other than with very close friends any more as I respect peoples privacy.

    I can understand people wanting to be able to take photos of coppers misbehaving, but how would we feel if a random came to one of our raves, took loads of pics of us taking drugs, maybe being a bit loud etc, and dobbed them all in to the cops? anyway if someone really wants a photo of someone else what doesn’t want to be seen there’s plenty of covert kit available..

    @madscientist 365869 wrote:

    The second video however, is plain and simple brutality. You could argue they were ‘asking for it’ but we all know the real reason, they simply didn’t want to be filmed. As for not disclosing their number, as far as I know it is illegal not to do so… this was also the case in teh G20 ‘riots’ – anonymity of the police so individuals could not be held accountable for their actions.

    unfortunately the best what would happen would be like in Denmark where the cops have big yellow and black numbers on their riot gear but still kettle people and knock their heads and can even shoot at them!

    i think the first one, he was just looking for a reaction and the police handled it well

    the second however is proper out of order

    The first video the cameraman is just being a twat and looking for a reaction so the OB ain’t at no fault there imo.
    Plus that building is a landmark so filming the entrance is just sheer fucking stupidity given the current climate.

    The second video is a bit dodgy though, The OB were being absolute wankers there. It’s times like that i wish i were there had powers like the incredible hulk. Let em try and arrest me then.

    You wouldn’t like me when I’m angry!! raaa

    Unfortunately with the second one it was at some sort of eco-protest and whilst those involved with such things very often have a very good point they haven’t got wider public support outside traditionally “left wing” communities, and some of the actions they carry out are viewed as counter-productive.

    the wider problem is a lot of centre right “normal” people view any form of protest or dissent as “petulant resistance to legitimate authority” and won’t support it. I even once encountered a old dude who sold his bicycle rather than join a “protest” campaign to get some dangerous roads sorted out as he said “I am a Conservative and don’t want to become an environmental activist, only elected politics and the market should dictate transport policy!”

    today if there was a video of cops manhandling a coloured person (who didn’t look Muslim) most white people would also be horrified, but even in my living memory there was a time when they would say “that wog got what he deserved..”

    @DJCliffy 365950 wrote:

    The first video the cameraman is just being a twat and looking for a reaction so the OB ain’t at no fault there imo.
    Plus that building is a landmark so filming the entrance is just sheer fucking stupidity given the current climate.

    The second video is a bit dodgy though, The OB were being absolute wankers there. It’s times like that i wish i were there had powers like the incredible hulk. Let em try and arrest me then.

    You wouldn’t like me when I’m angry!! raaa

    Agreed mate. I’m not the biggest fan of police but I thought the first plain-clothes guy seemed reasonable, patient and polite. Made me optimistic about things actually!

    plenty of numbers on display in Denmark (but actually the “serial” number rather than warrant card number)

    but people still getting kettled and roughed up

    Scotland Yard has told police officers there is “an enormous amount of concern” about the use of anti-terror laws against people taking photographs in the street.
    In a circular to all Metropolitan borough commanders, John Yates, the assistant commissioner for specialist operations, advocated a “commonsense” approach and reminded officers there were no laws to stop people photographing buildings.
    “Unless there is a very good reason, people taking photographs should not be stopped,” wrote Yates, who is Britain’s senior counter-terrorism officer.
    He noted complaints from members of the public, many of whom had been stopped under the Terrorism Act. Section 44 says police do not need suspicion to stop and search people within certain designated areas.

    Scotland Yard warns police officers over photography concerns | UK news | The Guardian

    its clear from this they are stopping anyone what looks a bit “foreign/Muslim” in the Metpol area.

    ironically here in bumpkin-land you can photograph anything you want providing there aren’t too many kids in the photos (which is fair enough as there are nonces galore in the villages :rant:)

    i think about 90% of middle-old age age men have an SLR

    @joshd96320 366185 wrote:

    i think about 90% of middle-old age age men have an SLR

    Self Loading Rifles?

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Forums Life Law Police + Photography