some have been and some haven’t
but in one particular case from our area cops still have all the equipment they confiscated
its been nearly a year and no-ones had a proper day in court, the case has always been adjourned usually because of lawyers – this whole thing is beign led by police lawyers rather than cops
all attempts to reclaim the equipment by claiming it was hired/a private event have failed – the cops don’t return calls and are not treating the case with any urgency
its also a case of cops dealing out the law at “street level”
they were most pissed off when the entire TSG formation was forced to retreat on the Ridgeway in 2004
and they have had a lot of complaints from business owners on the outskirts of Reading that they werent’ doing enough to stop buildings being rinsed and smashed up during parties
they also still think that unlicensed raves are done on a commercial basis (mind you probably because their CID see the door people bawling for donations at the gate)
so it seems the idea is to keep the rigs out of use for as long as possible and “take the costs back to the ravers” – cops unfortunately can do all ofthis without bringing people before Court and “justify” it to wider society as “they haven’t paid their way and there are licensing procedures, we need to deter people from breaking the law”
Incidentally I would point out I know elraveon personally and he’s been raving even longer than I have been – he’s no cop, judge or councillor but a family man who still likes partying and sometimes turns up with his entire family.
he’s not putting up stuff like this for fun or to look big, but to explain what has happened in the South East (particularly the Thames Valley) and why public info on parties and events themselves are becoming thin on the ground.
quite simply various crews rinsed the area big time from 1998 – 2004 and people didn’t think too far ahead – middle england fought back and the cops also got better comms and logistics and won a battle – now people need to be smarter to win the war.
thanks general lighting, it is intresting read up and i enjoy reading things on such things
but i think for the info given on the first post i made at top has opened a can of worms which would be more suited on the main board as a open disucussion, but this post still stands so if any freinds are reading
MORE DETAILS SOON
INDOORS
UN-INDUSTRIAL STYLE
ACID CITY IT ISNT!
OUT OF TOWN IT IS.
also i sell crack to kids
oops
this what i have posted:
so in the grand scheme of things, no-one should post A>N>Y party info on a website in any shape or form on a or a forum as whether sighning in as a no-name or regesterd user as ya ip address can be traced down to ur front door where you will be nicked for organising a illegal rave, selling beer drugs ect ect,
on that same note
no one can discuss between freinds about up and comming partys as they will also find themselves being looked at as a organiser, by mearly talkin of meeting up
when truely the buck stops completely at the people in there trucks setting up and whatever p.a equiptment with 20 or more people or whatever that number is to play repetative music
I thought my first comment was fair and reasoned and you have continued to set the tone lower as the thread has proceeded and I to my shame 😉 have just followed you, as to being cocky with your spelling I just used some of your words and spellings to answer each point. I couldn’t care less how you spell a word as long as I understand it, I admit I had a little bit of fun with it on one reply but that was because of your cocky attitude if you like to what I considered a reasoned question and remarks.
I don’t know what assumptions I have made on your person that have upset you, you certainly have been throwing them around, as to being rude or intrusive or a fucking nuisance, I am not sure what you are talking about TBH you seem to come over that way too 😉
I never said anyone shouldn’t post info I said I asked if it was a good idea to put a DJ name and a rig to it, even if the rig has just been sold but I have to ask why you want to put your name forward and sure they can trace anyone maybe if they are really bothered but you come over as if you are something to do with it, and they may well be bothered.
Especially if they have a reason as GL says, castle morton caused a stir and a fair few rigs went to court over it but the only person that got convicted and went to jail was someone who took it upon himself to run a party answer phone from his home phone,
You certainly can talk about upcoming parties if you want to alert the OB. As to PEL to put it in simple terms, if they are advertised in the public domain, done for a profit or to lure people to buy booze then the local authority can take anyone they think involved to court, without there necessarily being any police involvement, of course its hard to prove who is an organizer and a rig can say a geezer called dave rang me up and invited me but they have never met him as far as they know it was a private party. That’s why the law has been amended. .But you may have to prove that in court and its not unknown for people to get done and it maybe a long drawn out affair.
Is it me or is this incredably hard to present in court?
::is basically a question raised on what i think it is you are trying to put across and my final word is , i think that it would be incredably hard to prove in court
if ya can present to me after reading this how my post involves the above then go for it, and how on earth they can prove anything untill then can ya leave ya politics and bollox off of the thread
many thanks
first several people have been done over various regions of the country this last 12 months that I cant comment about. The amount of prosecutions a year is small normally its not common but its not unknown either, but last year about 10 party people (rig)s known to us all pleaded guilty even though I am informed they weren’t and I can easily believe that a big multirigger is not organized by them all but the success of those cases were followed by the wokingham lot, and the main evidence of the council is that they were there and the party was advertised on a public forum,
I am not talking politics or bollox just urging a bit of care, be a bit less egotistic for that’s why I believe you used your name, nothing wrong with that for a DJ but in this matter I think you should be a bit cagey, I am not even saying say nothing but there’s no point making it easy for them,
Anyway I am sorry that this has got out of hand that wasn’t my intention
one slight clarification – it was the more recent busts I am referring to, not castlemorton! I was only a teenager back then and didn’t care about the politics or wider society that much – all we cared about then was drugs and raving – to the point we were becoming estranged from our families and involved in crime because of it – this is one of the reasons why the clampdowns have become progressively harsher over the years.
Whatever positive aspects unlicensed raves may have (and the only one I can think of is that ketamine gives a bit of temporary euphoria, and stops chavs from killing each other quite so often) We are not being seen by wider society as simple “party organisers” or organising positive social events but as dangerous “pied piper” types leading youths into a life of drug abuse, anti-social behaviour and criminality – and our image is getting worse as events are blighted by violence and vandalism.
Its always worth remembering that when you discuss your raving activities in public.
GOD SAKE LEAVE DJVU ALONE – U HAVE A GO @ HIM YOU HAVE A GO AT ALL OF US.. IF THATS YOUR ARGUMENT – WHAT THE HELL IS THIS AND OTHER SITES FOR ?
GOD SAKE LEAVE DJVU ALONE – U HAVE A GO @ HIM YOU HAVE A GO AT ALL OF US.. IF THATS YOUR ARGUMENT – WHAT THE HELL IS THIS AND OTHER SITES FOR ?
ARE YOU HIS MUM 😉
What is my argument then?
I didn’t have a go at him I just asked if it was a good idea to put his name to it, followed by its his choice and I hoped it all went well for him, he decided to get mouthy IMO to avoid discussing it but to answer your question this site is for people to have their say.
I see you speak for everyone, except me that is. So who elected you spokesperson?
Freeparties evolved to avoid PEL laws but that was before the internet. The bottom line is if a party is for the public you need a license and people are getting done for it NOW because of it being advertised on the internet.
All I have tried to do is give him and you some advice so we can keep partying and not lose more systems. If people don’t want to be careful why don’t they give out locations? Stick your head in the sand if you want. The authorities are going to love you.
one slight clarification – it was the more recent busts I am referring to, not castlemorton!
I understood that you were talking about recent events GL it was just a famous example of upseting the local and then wider community.
I see you speak for everyone, except me that is. So who elected you spokesperson?
Freeparties evolved to avoid PEL laws but that was before the internet. The bottom line is if a party is for the public you need a license and people are getting done for it NOW because of it being advertised on the internet.
All I have tried to do is give him and you some advice so we can keep partying and not lose more systems. If people don’t want to be careful why don’t they give out locations? Stick your head in the sand if you want. The authorities are going to love you.
FOR GOD SAKE GET OFF YA HIGH HORSE
FOR GOD SAKE GET OFF YA HIGH HORSE
explain? what do you disagree with and why, instead of shouting
If just 3 years ago someone had suggested that elraveon – of all the people I knew – would be posting warnings like this on our board and telling people not to talk about parties on the internet I would have laughed in their face…
when he first started puttting up the PEL warnings I actually checked his details – I could not believe what I was seeing at first – it was out of character to even suggest backing down and not being upfront and quite militant about raves. I do believe though this stuff is being discussed out of necessity, not to put anybody down or spread despondency.
Although we’ve got the usual problem that happens when strong personalities clash (and you need a bit of front to pull off raves) he’s not actually trying to have a go at anybody but just pointing out the bitter experiences many mutual friends of ours have had recently.
People don’t like hearing bad news but this is news that can’t be buried or it may bury our scene.
The problem is mostly confined to the SE (because thats where most raves happen) – it may not have happened in your particular region yet but its worked in “downsizing” raves in one area so I doubt it will be long before other regions try it (one Welsh council has already had someone fined)
Take a look at the table that appears at the bottom of any thread on here which shows the historical posts with related titles – or have a read at our older stuff – you can see that for some years you could be way more blatant about raves on the internet.
We used to have a whole list of partylines for London and Thames Valley raves on the board which was a very popular way of people finding out info – People used to upload really in depth reviews about all the local raves to both this site and another popular rave site (Which may now have been taken down for security reasons)
No one got any hassle from the cops apart from obviously at the frontline or where they had been called by locals. If cops took action at a rave it got closed down there and then but no more was done about it, confiscations were relatively rare (although they did happen).
Things have changed though – both on the rave scene and in the wider world – and not for the better.
The backlash from locals was in fact building up years ago (as you will see if you look at the mainstream news reports) , but stuff like the worries over the millenium bug, fuel protests, foot and mouth and 9/11 took up the resources of the cops and other authorities so we got away with a lot of parties over the years.
Raves got bigger, louder and longer – particularly in the affluent south east where a lot of young people had spare cash and resources and easy to get IT jobs where you had slack time to organise parties… “rigs became the new decks” as high power sound equipment became more easily available.
Unfortunately ravers also took more drugs and many got to the stage where they got into addictive class As or it affected their family/personal relationships or work performance, or even turned to crime – with wider society and the NHS picking up the pieces.
Even so, a lot of this was overlooked due to the dot-com boom and post millenial euphoria and even the crash led to a lot of “spare buildings” for warehouse parties, and in 2002 and 2003 there was a long hot summer where good weather brought a lot of crews to the outdoors.
When it all came crashing down about a year ago (as much due to the wider world situation) the backlash started against anyone who wasn’t “paying their way” or “complying with accepted norms of society” – those who were perceived to have had had an easy ride during the dot-com days whilst “middle england carried on slogging”.
Easy jobs got outsourced to faraway countries where people would work twice as hard for half the salary and didn’t pull sickies after moosed weekends; the laws against illegal parties and the drug culture were beefed up to please middle england, paranoid that its own children were going out of control.
Cops also got issued with digital communications equipment and new omputers and surveillance kit which made it a lot easier to gather “metadata” (dates, times, places) along with photographic or video evidence, making it more easily admissible in Court and usable alongside “soft intelligence” (stuff that cops or security services glean from monitoring the public communications networks).
This is one reason why police lawyers have recently made more use of the PEL laws as well as CJA; they can now get more evidence that people, vehicles and equipment were in certain places at certain times, as well as monitor our communications (such as websites).
it is not just a can of worms, but a 200 litre drum of large snakes, which those who oppose us have opened and tipped out on its side with all the snakes slithering about everywhere to bite the unwary. We can’t get them back in the drum – so we just have to be aware of their dangers.
Getting done for a party may seem like nothing but “the persecution is worse than the prosecution” – the PEL charge is usually put alongside others such as suspicion of burglary/criminal damage, abstracting electric (a theft charge) or suspicion of illegal drugs / alcohol sales so cops can march into any house where they think you may be (including your family home even if you don’t live with parents any more) and remove sound or computer equipment as “evidence” (PACE act 1984)
if you don’t turn up for a summons (or bail) the Court can issue a warrant for your arrest (a separate offence) – and even if you are “hard enough” to deal with a few months in prison, it does affect your later life as you are deemed unemployable by many and it can affect stuff like access to your children or travel to other countries.
If you aren’t busted hard you still have to take a day off work to attend Court – and its a matter of public knowledge (including your name and address) when you go up before the beak.
Friends who have never been in trouble with the law before have had this happen for the first time, and it has increased their stress levels and also affected their relationship with their partners and families… sadly the so called “rave community” doesn’t always give you the support you would expect (such as whip rounds to help people pay fines etc)…
its up to each individual how much risk they take (provided of course they are not increasing risk to an entire crew by their individual actions) but as times are getting ruffer its worth pointing out the consequences…
Much as I think elraveon was lookiing a bit too far into it….He does have a point. The law is there and he was just clarifying and making sure DjVu understood, which then got out of hand
Elraveon seems fairly well versed in P.E.L laws and I think he is more than entitled to his say as well. Which is what this site is for. The P.E.L is a fairly new law which some organisers don’t yet understand and therefore I do think it is important that a warning is given. How was he to know that hektik sound system is no more??
Anyway I am sorry that this has got out of hand that wasn’t my intention
ye , i have no ego on this , i post in my registred name as ive made a effort to be aprochable and it has some definition that im not posting a load of cod and leading things up garden paths
period
peace between us fair enough but we must be aware and I need not say much more as GL and elrtardo have put it very well. I take your reason for putting your name to it as genuine, tbh that’s what I thought at first and why I asked if it was a good idea.
putting that aside, the way I see it is the law is about to be changed and there are going to be test cases of that you can be sure, but they may wait to give people enough time to hang themselves.
The law is down to interpretation and we can genuinely try to have free private parties within our understanding of the law and your solisitor can argue that when these test cases come, if we haven’t made a genuine effort to take freeparty advertising out of the public arena we will have no chance. in my opinion of course 🙂
The writings on the wall
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