putting that aside, the way I see it is the law is about to be changed and there are going to be test cases of that you can be sure, but they may wait to give people enough time to hang themselves.
The law is down to interpretation and we can genuinely try to have free private parties within our understanding of the law and your solisitor can argue that when these test cases come, if we haven’t made a genuine effort to take freeparty advertising out of the public arena we will have no chance. in my opinion of course 🙂
The writings on the wall
PEACE
hi dj vu I have just looked at some of the thread on SJ about this party and you hav had a bit of stick with the scum name, I can assure you I hav only just looked at it and just in case you thought so , I can assure you it is nothing to do with me, as I said before I quite like the name. we are called scum, so we take the name and make it mean something better than those elected scum and certainly the unelected aristocratic scum.
As to attracting bad scum I don’t believe it. They lurk in big towns anyway and even make it out to the sticks sometimes usually in smaller numbers admittedly. it’s a society problem though not caused by parties IMO. Bumpking is only safer not safe. Its certainly not a safe world never has been, we are flying through space at a breathtaking speed on a molten rock crust covered with gases and unpredictable weather systems in habited by animals living off and eating each over and dominated by powerful beasts and orbiting around a raging burning sun
Interesting thread and thanks to GL for the social history lesson 😉
I knew PEL was having an effect but didnt realise there were so many prosecutions going on – you mentioned like ten or something.
RE: QUOTE: “Friends who have never been in trouble with the law before have had this happen for the first time, and it has increased their stress levels and also affected their relationship with their partners and families… sadly the so called “rave community” doesn’t always give you the support you would expect (such as whip rounds to help people pay fines etc)…”
While i can dig the need /desire to keep certain details of cases off the net – or not discuss them on open forums where people will just add extra info / speculations which will no doubt be pretty useful to the authorities… It would be useful to at least have some static page somewhere updating people on what’s going on in this area…
Though obviously it’s a bit of a fine line cos you don’t want to go publishing stuff that in effect says hey authorities look – yer newer tactics are being successful…
At least some of the stuff with czechtek and the utah bust has shown that there is at least some senses of solidarity in europe and beyond – if pple know more what was going on then support whether that be whip rounds or just moral support would be more forthcoming.
I have moved this answer to a thread in the law section, I think its a important question if you werent aware or the last twelve months PEL actions, its an important area for this paretyt to consider to but I do not want to hijack this thread as what they do or how they do it is up to them. I have had my say I dont want to labour it here 🙂
well well..
djvu…
man, keep us posted on the party!
peace
why are people always arguing on this forum? Be nice. It’s nice
Reading through this thread has thoroughly depressed me….
What on earth is the point of carrying on with this forum??
The main point of it is for people to spread the word about forthcoming partys and for people who are ‘out of the loop’ to find out about forthcoming partys, simple.
Yet the moderators constantly warn against giving out specifics, ie: rig names, dj names, telephone numbers etc. excuse me if im being naive but this sort of information seems pretty important when trying to big up an event??
Something as simple as giving out a very basic non specific pre warning about a rave has sparked off this thread, a sad day indeed…
I remember in the mid ninetys in response to the CJA attending reclaim the streets event’s, protests getting alot of media attention, being given information books at free partys which gave valuable information and advice for ravers and organizers. However this PEL shit has seemed to just creep up and been introduced in a very sly manner, it effects everyone who plays or appreciates any sort of music yet there has been little resistance and no backlash… that just seems weird!
From my own experiences in organizing and attending over the last 10years
I have come to the conclusion that the way to go is back to the old school, word of mouth is still the best way of promotion and creating a vibe and a solid following is the most important thing, rather than hundreds of randoms turning up jepordising the rig and reputation that takes so much time and money to build, most of them tend to lightweight off before it gets light anyway!!
ps, GL, talk of suit wearing I.T consultants in the south east buying a rig with there spare cash, then pretending to be party heads for the summer, really really pisses me off, its also totally irrelevant. Did this really happen man, or did you just get on one with the social history lesson?? 😉
peace, R.I.P partyvibe
apologies – missed this when the server crashed a few weeks ago…
unfortunately the unlicensed party scene in the UK has taken a battering for a number of reasons including the new laws – discouraging people from talking about unlicensed raves on this (and other) forums is not something people have done lightly.
Cops are definitely now using sites like this to catch people involved in unlicensed events, (Northwales used SJ gallery to identify some crew people in a recent court case), they are getting Court Orders to get wider info from the internet. Its being justified because its claimed owners of spaces where parties happen are incurring substantial losses.
I’ll admit I’m also puzzled as to why there was no real backlash against the PEL laws – but perhaps society has become more “puritanical” these days and music isn’t really seen as that important (particularly when there is serious global and local conflict going on in the world today), there is a backlash against “chavs/hoodies/yob culture” and as raves (and even licensed clubs) attract a lot of young people who may not conform to societys norms they are being lumped in with the rest of the “human trash”, even by “guardian readers”, “hippies” and those who would hitherto have supported us.
it saddens me as well that we can no longer even do the in-depth reviews this site was famous for, nor keep the partyline list which everyone used to use until comparatively recentl.
even so i wouldn’t say running this forum is at all pointless as there are still opportunities for socially concious licensed events or in countries outside the UK.
Partyvibe has always been international in its outlook….
there are also other aspects of our lifestyles and other things worthy of discussion like DIY art and culture.
as for “IT consultants” their presence on the scene certainly is relevant, how on earth do you think boards like this and most of the crew websites got set up? 😉
There’s a lot of crossover skills between IT engineering and the technical side of the rave scene; the net and the free party scene grew up together…
i certainly wouldn’t say these IT staff were “pretending” to be ravers merely for the summmer either.
I know a few people who have sacrificed what could have been promising careers in the IT industry to go raving in Europe – people who have left steady jobs so they could devote more time to the scene (and have had little thanks for it apart from various hassles and thousands of euros spent)
free parties don’t (and perhaps should not) provide a primary source of income for most people (a constant suspicion from cops that money was being made from these is one reason why PEL laws came in)
they are an expensive pastime and now increasingly risky for those involved.
Being busted for PEL is worse for your wider career prospects than drugs; drugs can be explained away as “youthful experimentation” or “coping with pressures” whilst PEL violations are seen as “dishonesty and a selfish refusal to accept the proper channels of society’s infrastructure”
lets face up to it… people have other lives to lead and increasingly often young families to feed. unless your employers/partners/family are very understanding (and many are not) Its difficult to hold down a job or relationship if you are constantly on bail or in Court…
As soon as the “spare time and money” starts becoming thin on the ground, and the risks increase, like it or not a fair few people are going to drop out of raving as other priorities take over..
Hey partycrim I think information is important and rigs and DJs are being prosecuted and most are just pleading guilty on the evidence of posts such as this.
“However this PEL shit has seemed to just creep up and been introduced in a very sly manner,”
this PEL shit as you call it has been around for a long time much longer than the freeparty scene. And Freeparties have always been about getting around PEL. Rigs and people have been done in the early 90’s but it was not easy to bring a successful prosecution, because they have to have evidence it was a public party and find the organizers. However times have changed the net has evolved and they have found that they can use freeparty internet announcements as that proof and in a few days the new amendments roll in and equipment owners and DJ’s are automatically deemed as involved in the organization or management.
The only defense from this is that your party is a private event arranged by private means.
Now I have tried to point this out and got a lot of stick for it and now this site is getting it for trying to inform people like yourself who should know about this law already as it has been around for a very long time..
It does start to sound a little tedious after reading warnings time after time. But it’s important that we get the message out there. It’s not just the rig owners that need to know. Everybody who parties should know the law.
Had I just started partying then i’d be dead chuffed that people like Elraveon and GL had taken their time to explain things so clearly.
Had I just started partying then i’d be dead chuffed that people like Elraveon and GL had taken their time to explain things so clearly.
even those who have been going for years can still learn a thing or two from these posts about the laws. The law is ever changing and its important to be up to date with your knowledge otherwise problems may occur when the law is interpreted using old/possibly out of date information.
people only know what they have read / been told. and there are so many laws and other things that affect the party scene its almost impossible to know it all and know every loophole.
i find it fasinating reading about all the different laws and each persons interperatation and opinion and knowledge of the laws regarding free parties and the scene in general.
people only know what they have read / been told. and there are so many laws and other things that affect the party scene its almost impossible to know it all and know every loophole.
i find it fasinating reading about all the different laws and each persons interperatation and opinion and knowledge of the laws regarding free parties and the scene in general.
I’m glad some people appreciate what we are doing…
TBH I often find it quite hard researching all this – you have to read boring, stuffy publications from the Government and lots of cop websites and anti-rave reports….
Its often quite disheartening as not only do you realise how far-reaching the anti-rave clampdowns are and how much effort is being put in to stop unlicensed events, you also get the impression of how divided and resentful this country actually is; the “new puritans” thoroughly hate the “pleasure-seekers!”, and you wonder how it will all end; will people on our scene fight each other over the crumbs like some ethnic communities are doing in the Midlands?
Worse still I personally feel a bit guilty as much of the clampdowns are due to the excesses of the old-skool ravers (of which I am one!)
you get no thanks in some quarters for telling the bad news -there’s a culture of pelting the messenger and many refuse to listen anyway or accuse those who tell it of being part of a “babylon conspiracy”. At least until they end up in Court but by then its too late.
so the best I can do is keep people aware of the situation as it develops…
The law is ever changing and its important to be up to date with your knowledge otherwise problems may occur when the law is interpreted using old/possibly out of date information.
people only know what they have read / been told. and there are so many laws and other things that affect the party scene its almost impossible to know it all and know every loophole.
I think you are right, its important to be aware of changing situations as well, even if you obey and comply with the police you may still find that you have to deal with the law and if you don’t understand it, you are in a difficult position and at a major disadvantage, you may even be coerced into believing you are guilty because of somebody else’s interpretation of the law or easily be tricked by clever interview methods.
you need also to have a general knowledge of basic rights and procedures that the police have to follow and paperwork that you can request.
You need to understand the law to be able to instruct your solicitor on what you want him to do and what to say on your behalf.
What I am trying to say is don’t rely on the police or even the legal system to help you out when you need some justice.
ps, GL, talk of suit wearing I.T consultants in the south east buying a rig with there spare cash, then pretending to be party heads for the summer, really really pisses me off, its also totally irrelevant.
ravers are ravers at the end of the day.
who cares what background they came from, what job they have, where they are from , what race/religon , what “social class” the gov fits them into?
IT DOESNT MATTER.
the fact is they are all just people who want to have fun and enjoy them selves free from silly restricitons imposed by the government.
who cares what background they came from, what job they have, where they are from , what race/religon , what “social class” the gov fits them into?
IT DOESNT MATTER.
the fact is they are all just people who want to have fun and enjoy them selves free from silly restricitons imposed by the government.
agreed….
TBH I think my comment about “suit-wearing” IT professionals on the rave scene was misinterpreted as a criticism… particularly as I am one of these! (not through choice TBH…. I’d rather use my skills full time for something more creative, but it doesn’t pay 🙁 ) there has also a been a “new puritan” backlash against casual dress at work apart from Fridays, and I have to deaL to a lot of managers and other senior types.)
what I was trying to say is that IT professionals provide a lot of resources to the scene, both technical and operational, but increasing legal hassles and stuff like the PEL laws are sadly making it harder for a lot of us to continue our activities.
Its hard to compete for jobs and contracts when you have a criminal record for “defrauding the public purse” (which is what PEL violations are classed as!).
Whatever progressive political views you may have there is still the harsh reality you need cash to survive in this world…
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