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  • DJCliffy;242509 wrote:
    You can still be a good person and not believe in God. Thats how i live my life, was baptised an all that but don’t believe in any of it. Say i live my life in a good way and die and find out there is a heaven, how can they not let me in?

    Just because my allegiance doesn’t lie with that particular branch of religion, why will that bar me from entry? :you_crazy

    And why on earth would someone all loving and all powerful be as mean to say “ah but if you guess wrong, if you don’t believe in me, i will send you to be tortured for eternity”. In fact that sounds suspiciously rather like man..

    In fact that sounds like a statement designed to give the Church power over its people..

    photographthesun;242533 wrote:
    And why on earth would someone all loving and all powerful be as mean to say “ah but if you guess wrong, if you don’t believe in me, i will send you to be tortured for eternity”. In fact that sounds suspiciously rather like man..

    In fact that sounds like a statement designed to give the Church power over its people..

    Exactly mate. Religion was designed by the greedy to enslave mankind. Good thing we all know the truth innit! raaa

    people create their own Hell through lack of self-control. the only thing spirituality or religion (of any denomination) can do positively is to help people learn their self control and discipline. This is why the sub forum has the name “spirituality, morality and religion”

    I too am a lapsed Catholic.

    I got tired of religion because I learned how arguments between the Protestant Church and the Roman Catholic Church were causing hundreds of lives to be lost. Until 10 years ago, as recently as that, Britain was in a state of actual civil war over the disputed territory of Northern Ireland. Both sides of this war was funded in part by Americans with Irish heritage and it caused more deaths than even Al-Quaeda has in this country. There was bombs and terrorism for most of my lifetime at least 30 years of it, and hundreds of years of warfare before that.

    Amy, there are two important things you have to realise about the UK (if you want to learn about our culture).

    One is that Church and State are not separate in the UK. Religious groups (particularly the Church of England) actually have the power to make and enforce laws in our Government – we have the “Lords Spiritual” (church spokespeople) as well as the “Lords Temporal” (normal politicians).

    Some of these people aren’t even elected!

    The Church of England works with other denominations to find common ground, but this is a smokescreen for a global conservative backlash against all our freedom of speech and expression the 60s hippies fought for. The same thing is happening in the USA and many other countries, despite the war over resources Muslims and Christian conservatives are finding common ground and their combined power is chilling.

    This is why British youths from the alternative scenes are very cynical about religion.

    The second thing is that support for drug users as well as all other medical treatment is provided free at source by a body called the NHS (National Health Service) – it provides everything from family doctors to emergency hospital care and mental health/addiction services. This means that faith based groups do not have a stranglehold over addiction treatment services (they are however welcome to support the NHS provided they do not attempt to preach or convert to the patients).

    Interesting…thanks for those facts!!!!

    Don’t you have to wait a loooong time to get helped in socialized health care????? I had a friend in Canada, and she found a lump in her breast and had to wait MONTHS for a mammogram!!!!!! That is the primary reason I do NOT want ‘free’ health care over here!!!!!!

    Do they have any Evangelical churches over there – in other words very informal, no rituals, just freestyle worship?????

    I regards to the other posts……why would you not prefer to go to heaven? It certainly is preferable to the other! And yes, I’m afraid to inform you that if you call yourself good but do not Love the Lord, you are doomed. But you can choose your own way..that’s what freewill is all about. I guess we’ll find out eventually huh?

    amyberthelet;242586 wrote:
    And yes, I’m afraid to inform you that if you call yourself good but do not Love the Lord, you are doomed.

    oh well, I’m sure I’ll cope 😉

    amyberthelet;242586 wrote:
    Interesting…thanks for those facts!!!!
    don’t you have to wait a loooong time to get helped in socialized health care?????

    no – not for life threatening conditions anyway. Maybe a few weeks for follow on operations if there is very high demand for certain operations, but in worst cases people can now even be treated (for free) in hospitals of other regions or even nearby European nations if required.

    Britain is a small country and we have plenty of ambulances, and helicopters for ferrying about seriously ill people (although not as many as before the war started).

    whilst the health service can vary from area to area where there are issues its because of something like a baby boom in one region, a lot of old people in another or (sadly more common today) at weekends ambulances are occupied dealing with victims of drink/drug related violence or domestic assaults.

    By and large the system runs fairly well. It also doesn’t mean there is no private healthcare, for instance dental practices are more likely to be private – but both private and public healthcare co-exist within the same country. Ironically, a lot of the private companies still use NHS hospitals and staff as they are better equipped!

    Quote:
    Do they have any Evangelical churches over there – in other words very informal, no rituals, just freestyle worship?????

    yes. the Society of Friends, otherwise known as Quakers. They tend to be a bit more subtle in their approach…

    Hmmm Quakers huh? I always wanted to sit in on one of their meetings….

    The church I go to is almost like a God-rave! The worship is very loud, with a full electric rock band, and you can stand,sit,sing,laugh,cry, even run around the building if you wish!!!! There’s peeps with piercings, tatts, mohawks……total freedom.

    amyberthelet;242586 wrote:
    yes, I’m afraid to inform you that if you call yourself good but do not Love the Lord,, you are doomed.

    Love the Lord? I thought the church frowned upon that sort of thing? :crazy_dru

    amyberthelet;241249 wrote:
    I really doubt it’s wrong. Sorry to be so hardline, but I am an Evangelical. All the variations of the denom. are just that – as long as they do not detract from what is taught in the Bible, they are VALID.

    I am not talking about Mormons, Jehovah’s W, etc. But from Catholic to Evangelical…we’re all Christians.

    Soooo………….. basically what you’re saying is that your church is right, and all the churchs are the same really as long as they agree with what your church is saying. And all those other ones are wrong so you’d better not listen to them or you’ll go to hell?

    Phew. It’s a good job that’s not what the other churchs are saying- or we’d never know who to believe!

    amyberthelet;242484 wrote:
    As far as being sinners, we ALL are. NOBODY is perfect, no matter what they claim!

    I’m not a sinner. I believe I am a good person, and don’t require the help of a book or set of rules to be so… I find it amazing (not to mention a little disturbing) that others do.

    amyberthelet;242484 wrote:
    And you can be a ‘good’ person all you want – still won’t get you to heaven.

    What if i don’t want to get into heaven? I’m perfectly happy with the life I have, and not at all worried about what happens when it ends (because I see no point in spending my life planning for it’s cessation. It would be a waste.)

    amyberthelet;242484 wrote:
    As far as ‘why do I need to be saved’……suppose you are wrong and find out that after death the Christians were right all along……

    Suppose I do? Well, the first thing I will do is go find god and tell him to grow up….

    amyberthelet;242484 wrote:
    I’m just saying that as someone who truly believes in a righteous Judge and heaven and hell…I don’t want ANYONE to end up in hell!

    Well, you’re out of luck in my case… If you are right, and your god does exist, and he is everything you think him to be then I want to be sent to hell. I would rather spend eternity with someone who is at least honest about being an evil son of a bitch, than spend it with a piss taking joker who pretends to be the ultimate good. In your (rather simplistic) view of the universal order, I suspect I would get on rather better with satan than with god (and at least I can be guaranteed all the best rock musicians will be surfing the lake of fire with me….)

    amyberthelet;242596 wrote:
    The church I go to is almost like a God-rave!

    have you ever actually been to a rave?

    amyberthelet;242596 wrote:
    There’s peeps with piercings, tatts, mohawks……total freedom.

    total freedom, so long as you follow to the letter what is written in some book by a man 1000’s of years ago. yeah total freedom. :you_crazy:

    noname;243789 wrote:

    Well, you’re out of luck in my case… If you are right, and your god does exist, and he is everything you think him to be then I want to be sent to hell. I would rather spend eternity with someone who is at least honest about being an evil son of a bitch, than spend it with a piss taking joker who pretends to be the ultimate good. In your (rather simplistic) view of the universal order, I suspect I would get on rather better with satan than with god (and at least I can be guaranteed all the best rock musicians will be surfing the lake of fire with me….)

    raaaraaaraaa fuck yeh!!!!! 😉

    I still cant get my heard around this repenting stuff either –

    It’s like the IRA setting off bombs / doing hits on people and going to the catholic church and confessing –
    and their sins being ‘forgiven’ so they go out and do it all over again as they’ll again be forgiven…..
    tell me if I’m wrong people (as I know I’m not always right and quite often wrong) but………
    where is personal responsibility in this, and the need to live with the mistakes we have done and learn and hopefully grow as a person and not make them again and again – how do you learn if you believe your given a clean sheet of paper by some ‘god’ ?:you_crazy
    where is your remorse and acceptance of the nasty parts of our personalities / selves that we all have?

    I just dont understand it as it doesnt make sense with my values and beliefs…..

    TG, repenting is NOT just saying you’re sorry and doing it all over again….if you were to do that you would NOT have been forgiven in the first place, cuz God knows the HEART and would KNOW you weren’t REALLY sorry and were planning to keep on sinning! God’s grace and mercy are NOT a blank check for sinning!!!! Repentance is TRUE sorrow for what you have done and a COMPLETE turnabout from your sins.

    As far as outright rejecting God…..that is your choice.

    All loving and yet still vindictive when you dont comply with ‘his’ laws – is it just me or are these two phrases mutually exclusive? :you_crazy

    God is totally righteous and holy – He cannot abide ANY sin in heaven. But we were shown His immense loving mercy when Jesus shed His blood for us…..when we sin and truly repent and accept Jesus as our savior, God no longer sees the sin, but sees His Son. But idf we persist in our sins and reject Him, he HAS to judge us accordingly. That is His nature.

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