Forums › Life › Politics, Media & Current Events › smokey jO
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4363075.stm
:you_smart
what a massive suprise :weee:after the UN urges us to rethink the policy http://partyvibe.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=3158 as i said in that thread, if the legislation had been properly backed by research and wasn’t just rushed through with no real conviction.
in one of the few instances where the people lead the politicians, not vice versa, the legistlation has crumbled in months. call me a sceptic, but i dont think they even wanted this bill, they made it shit so it would be easy to remove.
cant wait till ganja day (looks like its back on!) if anyone has any suggestions about how to present the dance stage, i’m listening..
cant wait till ganja day (looks like its back on!) if anyone has any suggestions about how to present the dance stage, i’m listening..
TBH I think its more a failing of democracy in a divided nation than a conspiracy.
From all the opinion polls and reports I have read, and my own discussions with a wide range of people, it appeas to be only half the people (in the UK) who support any form of liberalisation of drugs laws, you have an equal number who would either keep the status quo or want harsher penalties for drug use! Even amongst users there are a lot of people who are concerned over mental problems being triggered off by cannabis, or the more common mild psychological addiction that occurs sometimes getting in the way of people being productive members of society.
In situations like these its a dilemma for any government of any political stance in any nation, which is not helped by the UN refusing to budge.
You can’t please all the people as there is no overall consensus on this issue, and sadly we have been lumbered with a half-measure because of the will of the people.
TBH cannabis users themselves must also stand up, not only by marching and ganja day but also by acknowledging the problems the use of this substance may cause, and by moderating their use if they do occur, thus reducing the burden they may place on others who support them and the NHS.
That said, events like Ganja day and sites like UKCIA (and of course partyvibe :D) are good platforms for informed and positive discussion of the pros and cons of drug use, with a view towards encouraging society as a whole to take a progressive and tolerant view of this issue, rather than continue to fight a pointless and expensive drug war which further divides communities and nations.
i have to say, either i’m too overbearing, or really limited in the people i chat to (hope not) but i dont think i’ve ever spoken to anyone who really beleives that cannabis should be illegal. crack, yes, pills, yes, ganja….nope.
i think that the goverments tendancy to use “drugs” to mean illegal drugs lumps them all together in peoples minds. if you actually ask them about their understanding of each individual drugs, and set the scope of drugs to include all medicines and coffe and alcolhol, then a sensible debate opens up. one which is prohibited, it seems, in parliament.
surely any law that gets passed has several original research papers to back it up. i know from a freinds girl who works for a pharacutical company, cataloguing problems and side effects, the millions of pages of info on every last legal drug before and after its sale.
if this is common practice, and the law was serious, why were the same guidelines not applied to ganj? because they are not interested in a real debate, the drugs trade is one of the biggest three markets in the world, and i find it absolutely incredible that our goverments have no interest in control of it.
in short, the people may be divided, but only thru enforced ignorance, and the debate is not wanted, bcause the “war on drugs” (see the un article) is such a rich source of political capital. its self perpetuating. we dont like drugs becaus etheyve told us theyre bad. our disapproval of drugs is a selling point for many political parties, and so they perpetuate opur ignorance.
personally i recon mind altering drugs to be a catalyst to mental problems already domant, and even that link is tenuous. but i also think that this is not intrisiclly bad, helping people understand themselves better at an earlier stage in life, gaining self awareness and opening peoples minds to the realm of possiblities which are outside our normal comprehension.
what wer need is a good, strong, new political party. or maybe a strengthened and enhanced green party..who knows? greenparty.org.uk
A year ago I would have agreed – and most of the people I even bother to speak to are themselves liberal-minded – but even amongst ravers (or ex-ravers) I have noticed a support for prohibition.
There are plenty of young(ish) people in their late 20s onwards I have come across who say “well we had fun but its got out of hand now, and time to clamp down” (usually they have given up drugs or think that getting busted “happens to chavs on estates”). Mostly those who raved in their 20s, now have good jobs and income and resent paying taxes to support people they may know who live by dole and dealing.
In most cases its a personal thing rather than believing the news of politicans; they have had a negative experience with friends or a partner who’s cannabis use has destroyed the relationship (lunching out social occasions, being angry when they cannot get a quick supply of weed etc, living in a shared house and having money for dope and not rent)
there has been plenty of debate on this and other drugs; (look on “theyworkforyou.com” etc) – but in most cases the MPs on both sides refer to “expert advice” (i.e papers from NHS, doctors etc) rather than make the decisions themselves.
other nations (mostly the scandinavian ones) have had these debates – and they have led to swingeing taxes on tobacco and alcohol (far worse than in Britain), and products with high levels of caffeine being banned!
true – but most other legal drugs do not have much abuse potential or a massive criminal market
our government (or that of any EU nation) just does not have the power. if they took this step, the UN/US would launch a reprisal of trade sanctions that would bring the errant nations economy to its knees, causing a state of emergency and the “election” of a more authoritarian government, unless the politicians and the people there were courageous enough to fight the might of the prohibitionists. Most are not – the moment a political decision starts making their lives difficult they cave in.
partly true, but as I said before a lot of people think merely on a personal level rather than for wider society. they see drugs having a negative effect at street level (due to prohibition) but don’t care what else is going on in the real world or other countries. Amongst those with conservative values Its not always a case of enforced ignorance but an individual choice to be ignorant – a refusal to discuss or debate these matters as “criminals and drug users should have no voice”.
thats fine when the drugs make someone more creative – but not if it makes them kick off at their family due to paranoia, or they use the drugs (any drugs) as crutch to avoid dealing with problems in their life. But mental problems are increasing anyway, so the medical profession should be carrying out as much research as possible on the population asa a whole, drug users or not.
and to deal with the house of lords etc in such a way that it cannot be used to deadlock the political process, otherwise we will fuck up like Germany (which should be in a much better state with its elected progressive coalition government.)
Incidentally I think if the Greens ever got into power in Britain the first Govt departments they would need to invest in would be the MOD and security services, there would be such a fucking backlash from the right worldwide we would need some serious protection!
good points man, well appreciated…
while i would love to think that this wasn’t true, i don’t think i realistically can. obviously the gag is that one of the greens oldest policies is disarmament and peace thru negotiation. as military production has been built into britains largest production sector by successive warmongering governments, thats gonna be well unpopular (not least because of the loss of jobs) and ffucking tricky. still, you’ve got to hope and plan, eh?
also, i thought i’d mention that some good freinds of mine were busted recently for cultivation. this from uk420:
what a nightmare, they caught me growing friday after a random stop and search of a car registered out of county and they found some mushrooms i didnt knew existed and then they went back to search my house… and proceeded to rape it. it took them two days in my house.
i am disabled and this is going to be hell to go through. there treatment of me was pretty horible, they kept me for 24hours with barely any food or medicine. they are completly not prepared to handle severly disabled people. i was born with my condition so i have 27 years of medical records to back me up. it was like a torture chamber for me. i never even had an interview and they want me to come back in 6 weeks for it and to make a statement. i havent spoken to any solicitor yet, they were to busy…
they are charging me with intent to suply and many other drug related offences. they just didnt have a clue what they were dealing with and havent said anything specific. i’ve got quite the ethnobotanic garden and they left most of it thankfully. but they took all of my legal herbal medicines that could make me much better now. and took some legal endangered species plants. i think the charges are only for cannabis, but they found a few shrooms as well, but hardly any i think. i had some poppy heads, but they are medicine though illegal.
hopefully it will be ok, it was almost completely for my medical use only. bad part is they found some scales, that i use to ration out my various medicines…. i have many many medicines that i take to remain well. no baggies though. i am broke and have virtually no money for food even. there was no ready cannabis found only leaves that they will probably count as bud. i had 2 plants that were going to be cut down in a week… and 4 more in systems but no bud yet and about 7 baby ones, i didnt use clones so i don’t know what are females until budding and i am quite ill so i dont always get to water them in time and i only expect 1or 2 plants every month or 2. they will say 13 plants… ouch. i wish we could educate them. but now i guess i am going to get more ill and not be able to grow any… but they missed some stuff, guess they had enough already
they took all my computers, but i was able to build another one out of bits they didnt take and can start some research. i think i can get it all back, i have bought nearly all of it from bank loans that is easily traceable. and im getting a new computer on tuesday from a disabled student allowance.
my two flatmates are also my carers and they are caught up in this as it was in the loft, hopefully we can all get away. it is all our first time offences. http://www.uk420.com/boards/index.php?showtopic=37564
proper savage.
doesnt mean end of discussion, tho!
i think the research that’s been done in the last 10 years probably does give a stronger case for… er… doing more research
i know I’ve smoked too much good bud in the last 6 weeks and have acheived little :bored:
i’d much rather smoke some nice natural grass but all i can get is chronic :cyclop_2:
and a couple of pipes of that in an evening and I’m unlikely to do anything constructive except cook :surprised
i don’t see how weed being illegal has helped anyone tho :frown:
when i was too young to buy beer or fags i could always get some ‘bis… and i think it’s easier to offer a friend constructive criticism if they drink too much or smoke too many fags (or even get too fat) but it seems that weeds illegal status prevents a lot of people from thinking too much about once they have decided to cross the legal line
anyone else noticed that?
i don’t see how weed being illegal has helped anyone tho :frown:
when i was too young to buy beer or fags i could always get some ‘bis… and i think it’s easier to offer a friend constructive criticism if they drink too much or smoke too many fags (or even get too fat) but it seems that weeds illegal status prevents a lot of people from thinking too much about once they have decided to cross the legal line
anyone else noticed that?
yep – it also means once you’ve broken one law its easier to break another.
IMO the social conflict caused by prohibition causes as much crime and mental instability as the chemical effect of the drugs themselves, and this should be shown in the research.
agreed
if a young person who uses weed is having a hard time at home or at school, they might start smoking more to dull their problems
but getting caught (by misinformed parents who equate weed with dead smack addicts, or by a school teacher keen to prevent the school getting ‘a name for drugs’, or by OB) can lead to alienation… what you’ve done is not like getting drunk underage… it’s illegal and therefore dealt with more seriously
the stress of all this at a time when a young person is trying to pass exams, deal with growing up, etc etc adds top their problems and they’re more likely to suffer from some kind of mental health problem…
sometimes
as for the disabled chap who was unfortunate to be nicked, I fear he is bang to rights on the drugs (as are his housemates), the presence of recreational drugs (shrooms and pills according to the full thread) and legit herbs didn’t help.. (cops aren’t herbalists and would think its all illegal in the first instance)
But there is a medical necessity element here and the conditions of detention have breached the disability discrimination act – might be possible to get charges heavily reduced or dropped. The housemates could also argue they were using recreational drugs to deal with the stress of being carers for their disabled friend….
It may [provided there is no personal safety risk] be worth going for publicity as well, to show that a law which puts a disabled person in cells isn’t a good one. I’d get in touch with Green Derek on UKCIA if you haven’t done so already .
yep, i’m sure denying disabled people medication isn’t right- what if he’d been diabetic?
the rec. drugs will be the sticking point, and you’re right about the herbs…they even took all his incense, making comments about it being drugs. pricks.
just makes you want to torture some pigs. i’ve been nicked 5 times, and the way i feel is that the police are just another street gang, and no less arbitrary. if anyone else came round my house, confiscated all my stuff and locked me in a bare concrete room for 24 hours, i’d have their thoat slit. or maybe just castrate them. fuck the criminal justice system.
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Forums › Life › Politics, Media & Current Events › smokey jO
