Forums › Drugs › Drug Addiction & Recovery › Subutex
Continued here: http://www.partyvibe.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=26977
OK my experience you come off 25ml of meth until wide open and clucking and then stick 8mg under ya tongue’
If that don’t cut it the next day you go twelve.
Max at sixteen is not nessesary but some do this for a couple of days and then come back down to fourten twelve eight’
It will take five days max to get throught the switch cluck’
Then you got to remeber the Methadone is still in your fat cells leaking back for 21 days’
I didn’t like Subutex as it just made me wired and high’
Methadone nearly killed me in the end so I took Ibogaine’
Blessings’
Motamba’
I wont reveal my name as i do not want to put my job at further risk, but I am hear today because I searched for “Buy Subutex Online” in google. I did this because I think the drug support system does not always meet the expected standard that people with addictions need.
I was never addicted to any kind of drug until I was about 17 years old. I am now 30 yrs old and even more addicted than ever.
Since being about 9 or 10 years old I have suffered with a mysterious ilness, put down as “Migraine”.
I suffered with falling asleep in the middle of the streets for years and no support from my family and friends, until one day I came across prescription painkillers and began taking these for pain relief. Dont get me wrong, i tried the doctors, visiting special clinics and having tests done on me. They would put it down to blocked sninas and stress and prescribed steroids, which just made me more ill. After a few years of taking pain killers “Neurofen plus and Kapake” (strong Codiene) I began getting bad stomach cramps and feeling very ill. This was because of the heavy painkiller use and ibuprofen contained in neurofen. I wanted to come off the painkillers but when I told the doctor he just prescribed me “Dehydricodien” pills.
An old friend of 25 years who was an ex heroin addict suggested I try some of his Subutex which he had left. So I did and they worked great, all i needed now was a constant supply. The doctors would not allow me to join the CDT drug clinic because I was not an heroin user. So I aquired some heroin and submitted a urine sample to the clinic. They prescribed me Subutex and I thought great, one step further. I started a new job in IT and got married to a super woman and I now have children and things are looking great.
About 2 months ago my drug worker changed and I was left with a new one I had not met yet as I work 5 days a week. One Saturday morning I was due to collect from the local Chemist but I had a severe migrane that left me unable to collect. I got through the weekend and called my drug worker on the Monday. She got back to me at 4:30 and said If I did not make it (20 miles) from my work to the clinic in 15 minutes then I would of dropped out of treatment and the subutex would be stopped.
This was impossile and so I did not collect. A ltter came the next day telling me I had dropped out of tretment and would have to re-apply. I thought “Il have to go back on painkillers until then”. They could not get me an appointment for weeks later and I got some paonkillers, but suddenly they would not work, I began to get withdrawels. I stayed off work ill, The painkilles did nothing. I called the drug clinic who said they can not see me or give me any help because I dropped out of treatment.
I had become dependent on Subutex and nothing else worked. The only solution to prevent me losing my job and my life was heroin. I got some heroin and now I am more addicted than ever.
Why is there no proper support for addicted people who are working?. Why is there no support for people who find them selves addicted to prescription drugs?. Why if you miss an appointment due to an ilness you are taken off the register?
This does not feel like a drugs support team! They tel you , you are supported but they tell you next when you need help that this is all your responsibiliy. Now i am left off work sick, with no subutex, no heroin, no painkillers work!!1.
I feel like taking the subutex has made me more addicted!
So if anyone can get subutex, I would defenatly be happy to see them! I think where the system fails, you should be able to help yourself!
You wont get them that cheap in the UK matey. They are very very sort after especially for peeps in prison because when you’re clean from opiates they’re very similar to a pethidine hit.
6to 8 weeks witing list for treatment is a fucking disgrace. What area are you from? In the north west you’ll probably get scripted within 1 to 2 weeks. Good luck because they are a very usefull tool in opiate recovery especially when they block other opiates from using at about an eight miligram dose and IMO and other peeps opinions they are a much better alternative than methadone. Listen man they’ll be never an easy way to get off opiates unless you are dedicated and determined. If you any advice whatsoever on the subject of opiate addiction and i will be nore than happy to assist you. Hoopefully in the not to distant future my new careeer will be inn this field. Good luck. :love: :love:
most smack addicts i know use both subutex and H in the same day… subutex to help them through a long night, and H as per usual in the day
You are quite right globalloon. The only way bupe will put you in acute W/D’s is if you have a habit and then suddenly take that first dose of bupe. After that a lot of addicts use both to help them through the night. The trick is to take the smack after the bupe and it will not and I repeat not throw you into WD’s.
it is a partial agonist, if their are opiates in your system it will kick them off, sounds like your friends are already clucking mildly (the herion has stopped working) as heroin only stays active for a short time (up to 12 hours) herion taken at night will be out of the system by morning.
when titrating people we ask them not to use heroin for 12 hours prior.
if they try the same pattern ofuse with a dose of methadone (higher doses taking longer to loose effectiveness) they will get a fucking nasty surprise.
all this is of course dose dependant. with 16 ml of subutex giving about 90-95% blockage of other opoids and 8ml giving 50-65% lower doses have lower blocking effects this is why when it is first prescribed you start on 2 ml and work up to the required dose over a few days.
as a partial agonist subutex will stop other opiods working and make anyonetaking them sick(physically) again only if higher doses are used lower amounts will allow the corresponding amount of high by not covering all the opoid receptors in the brain.
methadone is a full agonist but gives no high, subutex gives a partial high, the company reps say 50% but they are selling the suff innit because of this it should also be 50% easier to come off or withdraw from…
At bloody least. The first couple of days are very uncomfortable to say the least. A lot of people actually smoke a small amount of gear to help them get through those first days of hell. IMO bupe is prescribed in way too much of a hich dose. 8 mgs is usually easily enough and that amounts acts as a full blocker but please beware if you try to over-ride bupe with gear there will be a strong chancenof ODing on gear, so if you still plan to dabble on gear whilst on bupe then methadone is the better option, hope this helps.
Yes 30 mls is the recommended highest amount before switching over but i got down to 15 mls and it was still difficult. A couple of Valium in the first 2/3 days will help you no end, but you’ll be lucky if you get them prescribed for this purpose. What a drug quack wanting to make it easier for addicts? In our dreams.:yawn: :yawn:
It’s very hard to get a prescription around here, and even people with a hefty habit will only get prescribed maybe 4ml, and that’ll be cut down rather than increased
it sounds like the docs don’t know what they’re doing in this area
(the only person I know who has successfully got and stayed clean went to a private clinic in London and was getting a much higher dose to quit H)
Sorry mate got to disagree with you there. It actually seems like the docs down there actually do know what they are doing. 4 mg’s is a perfect dose in most cases because like I’ve stated before with buprenorphine. Less is actually more and a lower dose is more like a morphine hit.
And anything higher than 8mg’s can be a right bitch do get off. And by the way don’t forget all subutex is is a huge dose of temgesic (which was 0.2 mg’s) and used in the outer Hebridies as hillbilly heroin.
Ive cut and pasted this from an American opiate detox forum so I hope you unerstand what I mean Globalloon.Listen, Michael, your instincts are right. It is EXTREMELY important to start at either 2 mg/bid or 4mg/bid and to not exceed 4 mg/bid during the first 2-3 days. That should cover your withdrawals, and in addition, starting that low means you will have zero problems reducing your dose after 2-3 days and tapering down before you quit. For some reason not fully understood, people who start at 16 mg/day or higher have extreme difficulty tapering down, whereas those who start at 8 mg/day or lower usually feel no or little w/d effects when tapering.
Don’t be surprised, by the way, that your doctor wants you on more. He has taken only an 8-hour online course to qualify for Suboxone prescribing rights, and in any event, most doctors know very little about Sub and its effects. They usually way-overprescribe, which then builds a rapid dependence on the Sub in their patients. Many docs will also insist that Sub is not addictive, whereas in the real world we know this is absolutely untrue.
The other thing to remember is, use Sub for no more than 7 days or so, and your post-Sub withdrawal effects will be minimal. Every day extra that you use it will be another 2 days of withdrawal, or so I’ve found — and much worse w/d at that.
I’ve used Sub twice. The first time, I started at 32 mg/day, quickly tapered to 16 mg/day, but then had an agonizing time tapering below that. I was on Sub for a couple of months, and it took me almost a month when I finally quit to feel okay again. I went 14 days without sleep during that post-Sub withdrawal, and the depression and lethargy was paralyzing.
The second time I took sub, for roughly the same size habit (post-operative pain meds), I started at 4 mg/bid and after 2 days went down to 2 mg/bid. By day 7 I was down to 1 mg/day and by day 13 I was off. I never felt any reduction in dose, and only suffered a week or so of relatively-mild insomnia, weakness, and leg-shaking at night. I was able to move my whole house and family into a new house one week after quitting sub — something I couldn’t have even dreamed of doing the first time I quit sub.
But if I had it to do over again (God forbid), I’d take the sub for no more than 5 days. That’s plenty of time for most of the drug-of-choice to have left your system, plus the sub you take on your last day will linger with you for another 2-3 days. If I did that, I’m sure I’d be feeling fine in probably less than a week.
So basically if your sub quack tries to titrate you to anything more than say 8/12mgsmax after a few days. Tell ’em to read up on the subject and that I’d rather get off bupe quite easy than a reduction from hell. I sincerely hope this helps a lot of peeps who choose this option and best wishes and good luck. Agent Subby.
that’s what i thought in the first place, but cliffchuff was saying something different. what you’ve said makes more sense though… reading back i think i misunderstood what cliffchuff was saying
Seems to me that it varies in the UK from region to region and peoples preferences vary from person to person. In london i was put on 30mg subutex per day and i wasn’t even using pins! I was given a choice between methadone/subutex and could only really go on stuff people had told me or I had read to make that choice.
Personally i think meth makes you too lethargic (in more ways than one!) while Subutex keeps you cool with no real side effects plus you cant use which can only be a good thing. This whole area needs to be addressed because more and more people are using crack and/or Heroin in a kinda recreational way, they are only smoking Heroin maybe and are developing dependence…
The system is “geared” toward heavy Heroin users who inject or people who are sent to clinics to avoid jail etc as opposed to choosing to sort themselves out. I moved to Cornwall to get away from it all and now take only 4mg a day i havnt used for two years but think i’ll be on subutex for many more years…..
Serious insomnia if you keep taking them’
Bowl problems from constipation’
Personally i think meth makes you too lethargic (in more ways than one!) while Subutex keeps you cool with no real side effects plus you cant use which can only be a good thing. This whole area needs to be addressed because more and more people are using crack and/or Heroin in a kinda recreational way, they are only smoking Heroin maybe and are developing dependence…
The system is “geared” toward heavy Heroin users who inject or people who are sent to clinics to avoid jail etc as opposed to choosing to sort themselves out. I moved to Cornwall to get away from it all and now take only 4mg a day i havnt used for two years but think i’ll be on subutex for many more years…..
Bro’ scrape them fuckers with a razor blade and when down to 1mg switch to Temgesic’ they come in .4s and .8s so you can use them to tail off without clucking.
You don’t need to jump 2mg or 1mg of Subbies’
Ez now’
e_babes
PS – very true what he’s saying and what I know and experienced from Drug workers and Subutex itself I cant agree more.
Cliffchuff, as a question from my part, I was on 30mls of methodone and switched to Subutex. I was asked to stop using methodone for 36 hours prior to taking my first dose. You can imagine what “surprise” I got from a 8ml dose! Lets just say I was red raw from sitting in a scoulding hot bath for about an hour trying to warm up with constant gut rot and shivers and the shits to say the least.
I ended up using and using and using until I stopped being ill (which was only 2 hits on a ten pound joey and never went back (second time I tried Subutex this is). Some feedback for you – subutex at such a high doseage. Something for you to take to work mIn my opinion I think that no one with a low pain tollerance like myself should switch to Methodone from y friend. I dont know if your practice would allow such a switch at high doseage, but mine did. Totally regretful and made my situation worse. Also the “clarity” in my head and being use to the “dull” feeling from methodone was not great. I so wanted to be prescribed Valium but aparently this is dangerous for your heart on Subutex.
Being a depressive, someone who likes depressants to those who need further clarity, I enjoy my methodone, I enjoyed (past tense) my heroin and valium, my klonopins and other wonderful benzos.
Some treatment works for some, and not for others. It must be a tough choice to assist someone with – how you do it is beyond me. Being a potential patient of yours im sure I would have pissed someone off to the max. Your braver than most in your choice of work.
Elliot
There’s something very very simple to decide whether it’s going to be Methadone or buprenorhine? Be honest with yourself and if you’re still going to be dabbling with gear then go the M’done route but if you’re dedicated with a thought out structural plan to stay off gear, then go the bupe route. C’mon let’s not over-use certain words.Other words for bravery are ‘fearlessness’ and ”heroism’. We’ve recently had 2 minutes silence for bravery. Mr. Elliott.
Lets just say that I had to sit in a scoulding hot bath with a bowl to vomit in and some other unpleasanturies.
I believe that drug workers are under this myth that Subutex is a great wonder drug to stop people using on top, unlike methodone. I even managed to overide Naltrexone. I of course admit my stupidity but it can be done!
The gap between methodone and switching to subutex should be as long as a week in my opinion. Meths stays in your body for much longer and when that subutext kicks in you wish you never had taken it. Leave Subutext well alone if you are on meths and try longer than 3 days more like 7 days of no meth, switch to gear and then use Subutex. This is my only thought on helping the switch over to be as comfortable as possible.
Peace
Elliot
You’re getting into potential problems by doing this (using gear before you switch to bupe) because you’ll sudenly find that you’re blocking out both gear and M’done. Very very nasty. If you insist on this procedure use a little bit of gear at the same time when switching over from M’done, but only for 2 days max. And most importantly try getting down to 10/15 mls of M’done and thn don’t use M’done for 48 hours. For christ sake i used to take ‘done every 2 days anyway so it’s not that difficult. Just get out and do some exercise if possible because all you’re thinking reading negative stories like this is how difficult it’s going to be. the first 2 nights you wont sleep but so what? The problem with opiate addicts like ourselves is that we’re a right soft bunch who’ve never experienced pain!
it is a partial agonist, if their are opiates in your system it will kick them off, sounds like your friends are already clucking mildly (the herion has stopped working) as heroin only stays active for a short time (up to 12 hours) herion taken at night will be out of the system by morning.
when titrating people we ask them not to use heroin for 12 hours prior.
if they try the same pattern ofuse with a dose of methadone (higher doses taking longer to loose effectiveness) they will get a fucking nasty surprise.
all this is of course dose dependant. with 16 ml of subutex giving about 90-95% blockage of other opoids and 8ml giving 50-65% lower doses have lower blocking effects this is why when it is first prescribed you start on 2 ml and work up to the required dose over a few days.
as a partial agonist subutex will stop other opiods working and make anyonetaking them sick(physically) again only if higher doses are used lower amounts will allow the corresponding amount of high by not covering all the opoid receptors in the brain.
methadone is a full agonist but gives no high, subutex gives a partial high, the company reps say 50% but they are selling the suff innit because of this it should also be 50% easier to come off or withdraw from…
I don’t mean to be flippant but where did you actually aquire your training? Methadone has a ceiling effect whereby bupe doesn’t so trust me when I was on 120mg’s of M’done about 10 years ago I was on a serious gouch,
70
Voices
412
Replies
Tags
This topic has no tags
Forums › Drugs › Drug Addiction & Recovery › Subutex
