The rights and wrongs of arming the civilian population

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The rights and wrongs of arming the civilian population

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June 14, 2007 at 3:18 am

#692487
1

Section23-Han

@section23-han

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The idea of arming the civilian population isnt new ….Orwell also argued that arming the civilians would safeguard democracy…..it was a different world then of course, but i dont think he was actually serious about it, even then..

as to the idea of educating people about other religions, well im not against it… but I was just reading yesterday that a number of educationalists are getting a bit fed up of having their lessons dictated to by goverment ideals for how we should think on a variety of “new labour” agendas, religion being just one.

in the light of mushrooms being outlawed are kids being taught anything about religions where psycoactive drugs are integral? are they being taught the Rastafarian belief that man cannot outlaw marijuana?, or shamanism, or paganism? Maybe some parents here can enlighten me as to whether their kids are being taught about these other religions… or just the ones currently up on the political agenda..

For anyone interested heres the bit about Orwell…

Orwell thought that the Home Guard would make not only a good fighting force against the Germans but would also demonstrate the possibility of achieving ‘a democratic People’s Army’. In such a force, co-operation among different parts of society would replace the traditional reliance on upper-class leadership and a large, well-armed popular militia would act as a sort of insurance policy against government tyranny at home.

At the end of an article on the Home Guard in Tribune, Orwell wrote: THAT RIFLE HANGING ON THE WALL OF THE WORKING-CLASS FLAT OR LABOURER’S COTTAGE IS THE SYMBOL OF DEMOCRACY. IT IS OUR JOB TO SEE THAT IT STAYS THERE.’

http://www.orwelltoday.com/orwellguns.shtml

globalloon wrote:

bad enough that he got elected by default… but his justification for joining the BNP???

being taught about other faiths is a good thing. It promotes understanding and reduces conflict. The Muslim faith is not ‘totally against Christianity’… muslims include jesus as a muslim prophet, just not their main one.

so he’d rather support a party whose manifesto says that they would arm every citizen to defend their rights against the government :you_crazy and who would introduce forced deportation to people who are not british citizens than have information about various religions be given to his son at school

:head_bang

what a moron!
June 15, 2007 at 2:28 am

#887986
1

Section23-Han

@section23-han

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just as an add on to that last one, perhaps Orwell wasnt so crazy after all… The Swiss require by law for their citizens to keep a gun in the house..
June 15, 2007 at 2:51 pm

#887984
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globalloon

@globalloon

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Tekhan wrote:

just as an add on to that last one, perhaps Orwell wasnt so crazy after all… The Swiss require by law for their citizens to keep a gun in the house..

their’s a quite a different society to ours

do you have a link to that bit of swiss law? i thought they had liberal gun laws, but not a requirement… would be interested to find out mroe about how that came about… as a country that has been ‘neutral’ in 2 world wars, it surprises me
June 15, 2007 at 3:16 pm

#887983
6

General Lighting

@general-lighting

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Quote:

The Swiss army has long been a militia trained and structured to rapidly respond against foreign aggression. Swiss males grow up expecting to undergo basic military training and a mandatory period of service in the Rekrutenschule (the “recruits-school”), the initial boot camp, after which Swiss men still remain part of the militia either in a home guard or reserve capacity until age 30 (age 34 for officers). Each such individual keeps his army-issued personal weapon (the Sig 550 5.56×45 mm assault rifle for enlisted personnel, the SIG 510 battle rifle and/or the SIG-Sauer P220 9 mm semi-automatic pistol for officers, medical and postal personnel) at home with a specified quantity of government-issued ammunition (50 rounds 5.56 mm / 48 rounds 9mm), sealed and inspected regularly to ensure that no unlawful use takes place. The emergency ammunition is the only ammunition that requires accounting for during inspections.[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland

And only 300 people get shot dead every year by these legally held weapons (predictably either suicides or domestics).

I do think its a far more disciplined and controlled Teutonic culture though – just because the military postie is allowed to keep a pistol at home doesn’t mean he can just pop a cap into a yappy dog that is pissing him off (mind you I suspect the dogs there are probably all well trained too and don’t yap excessively!)

Also it also seems that the desire to shoot and the release of aggression from doing so is expressed in a disciplined manner with supervised sporting competitions…

I’ve got nothing against guns, and would keep one if it were permitted (I wouldn’t mind a Sig P220 TBH!), although unless Britain was actually at a state of civil war I would not see any need to use it for personal defence.

This is the flaw I see in the “American” gun culture; to me it implies the country is still at civil war if you actualy need a pistol to defend yourself from your own fellow human being – this isn’t really an acceptable way to live your day to day life…

In most non-combat situations (such as having the pistol for target shooting) I would keep the psychological barrier of having the gun and ammunition in seperate secure cases; simply just to make you think before you reach for this lethal weapon..
June 15, 2007 at 7:16 pm

#887985
1

globalloon

@globalloon

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oh that makes sense.. it’s the people who complete military service who are required to keep a gun at home

i’ve lived in countries where this is the case… and losing a single round carries a heavy prison sentence (imposed by the government)… so it doesn’t really relate to the concept of being armed to fight against the government

plus, a huge number of swiss people don’t do national service (eg. by going into higher education you can get out of it), so it definitely isn’t the whole population

it’s also a country with an incredible economy (fed by internal investment based on nazi / unethical gold) that allows such a strong welfare system and high wages, good housing etc, there is a fraction of the social conflict that is found in the rest of the world, including the rest of EU and US
June 18, 2007 at 2:01 am

#887987
1

Section23-Han

@section23-han

Member
Definitely!!! I didnt think my reply to the BNP thread was gonna get made into a thread all of its own…and I dont want to give the impression Im for this idea at all. The sort of perfect society that could safely do this, is the kind of society that wouldnt need to!

Id never want to see guns legal in England.

globalloon wrote:

their’s a quite a different society to ours
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