Interesting – note the cops trying to encourage people to get TENS licenses (does that mean they are going to actually give some out?)
And the fairly reasonable comments from the knight chap (I would have expected him to threaten to run the stack through with his lances and clatter a few ravers with a medieval mace TBH!) , although I’m unsure how he thinks ravers are going to be able to afford a solicitor..
22 May 2006 08:22
Police are planning a new initiative to tackle illegal raves in Norfolk.They are aiming to bring together local authorities, the Forestry Commission, the National Trust and other interested parties to plan a response to unlicensed music events.
Raves regularly take place on farmers’ or common land – this month alone large illegal gatherings involving hundreds of people have taken place at Cockley Cley, Saxthorpe and Thetford.
At the moment police judge their response on a case-by-case basis – ranging from a softly-softly approach to a more reactive response, as seen on New Year’s Eve. Then, Fifers Lane in Norwich erupted in violence after officers moved in to break up a party.
Youngsters regularly complain that they cause no harm, keep away from crops and are happy to clean up after themselves.
They say that there is no violence at gatherings normally held in the middle of nowhere – unlike Norwich or the market towns where police are kept busy with aggressive youths.
But villagers close to sites say thumping bass lines are carried for miles around and the ground afterwards is covered in rubbish.
Sgt Russell Hickford, who has been charged with setting up the new Norfolk-wide rave prevention group, said it was important to strike a balance between a heavy-handed and too light an approach.
“We’re setting up this group to enable effective management of these events in Norfolk,” he said. “There’s been quite a few recently and they cause considerable disruption to those living nearby.
“It was felt that we should look at unlicensed music events and see what we can do to prevent them.”
Sgt Hickford said that, along with the local authorities, the NFU and owners of Norfolk’s large estates would be invited on to the forum which he expects to hold its first meeting soon.
It will concentrate on intelligence-sharing arrange-ments, mutual support, event prevention, target-hardening and prosecution of organisers.
But he said he did not want to stop youngsters having fun. “Music events can take place quite legally. The organisers can apply for permission from councils for one-off events. We can’t have a blanket policy because our response depends on what effect the event has on the community, how loud the music is.”
Sir Samuel Roberts, who owns the Cockley Cley estate which is a regular target for illegal parties, said yesterday that the key to solving the problem was compromise.
He said that about 400 ravers descended on forest land near Swaffham a week ago but treated him courteously when he came to find out what was going on and cleaned up every last scrap of litter. “I’m not pro-rave but I’m being realistic,” he added.
Sir Samuel suggested organisers hire a solicitor to deal with police, agreeing sites in advance so that partygoers would not have to act so clandestinely.
But other landowners are less keen on compromise. Clive Hay-Smith, who farms 1,200 acres near Sheringham, and had to postpone harvesting barley when 300 ravers invaded his land in August 2004. While they did clear most of their rubbish, they did not apologise to villagers for keeping them up for three nights of “booming” music.
I’ve heard of a few hip lawyers for getting people off drugs charges but TBH the only time a solicitor could assist in this situation is to “encourage” cops/council to grant a TENS license which should be granted anyway if there is no risk to anybody.
The main issue here is getting landowners consent and not creating disruption to villagers.
I’d personally think it would be brilliant if some compromise situation could be arrived at and people get TENS licenses; it would take away so much of the paranoia and confrontation at these events whilst leaving the fun part – it is dependent on party people regulating themselves a bit more though, being more organised and also clued up instead of dumbed down…
there are two events i know of in Exeter area this summer that have TENS
the first is a festival organised as a response to local social problems; the area of exeter with the highest population of young people has no resources; no youth club, no shop, no pub, no community centre, nothing. as a result young people in that area get into the most trouble. we’re hoping for around 1000 people, spread over a few marquees
the second is a ‘garden party’ that has been happening in a field next to someone’s house for several years. all generations of the family get involved. in the past it’s been a one night event with all music going acoustic after 3 am. this year it will be 3 days long, with the same 3am music policy
nice ways to test out the boundaries of what is possible
but friendly (remote) landowners are going to be the key to any all-nighters
this would be ideal;
crews would have to learn how to right tens applications though it is not impossible and also sharpen up their Health & Safety awareness. I feel that any crew which can organise an illegal party has the capabilities to organise a legal one. :bigsmile:they certainly have the logistical skills required for the job:bigsmile:
i think that we have to bite the bullet and realise that those huge rigs we all love so much just annoy the locals and they should not be used except where we can ensure that they wont do that or where the noise disruption will really be minimal as perceived by the locals [unfortunately]
i guess this is not going to be a popular take on the subject and i would like to point out i like music as loud if not louder than the next
this is about being able to party without disruption if not necessarily at the volume we like and building up a mutual trust relationship with landowners, police, council and yes, you guessed it, the locals
the way the trend is going at the moment, free parties which put loads of peoples backs up are just going to make it harder to hold them in the future. Is this what we want? a future where we are unable to dance at all?
once you have organised yourselves once the next time is much easier and most of what is required for TENS is just an application of common sense WRT to public health and safety
Wondered about this. I’m a personal license holder and can apply for a temporary event notice. Even if the authorities granted one, it can only be for 499 people max. Plus there would be so many extra expenses, fencing, sia registered security, fire control, risk assesment it probably wouldn’t be worth it.
Any body wants to give it a try though let me know.
Wondered about this. I’m a personal license holder and can apply for a temporary event notice. Even if the authorities granted one, it can only be for 499 people max. Plus there would be so many extra expenses, fencing, sia registered security, fire control, risk assesment it probably wouldn’t be worth it.
Depends though – compared to the cost of a PEL charge / losing a rig / being nicked and bailed to return back to some faraway location the numbers start to make more sense.
Apart from teks and large multiriggers most raves actually don’t pull in many more than 500 people. TBH provided there isn’t a fire/security risk or noise nuisance I doubt if authorities are going to be that fussy if 600-700 people turn up
A large warehouse rave pulls in about 1500-2000 max but thats often only because a crowd from another rig appears due to an event elsewhere getting busted.
TBH I think 500 is a reasonable amount of people for smaller crews to deal without needing to deploy huge amounts of security (if only to stop the inevitable drug-fuelled machismo leading to fights). Do TENS licenses (as opposed to the full PELs) in your area insist on SIA trained staff or just sufficient stewards?
And isn’t a risk assesment is surely just a bit of common sense put down on paper?
well any experiences with this system are worth posting to this board; even if just to show the authorities (who doubtless monitor this board and others closely) that if they want us to play by the rules they will need to be supportive and not cave into nimbys at the slightest pressures…
Do TENS licenses (as opposed to the full PELs) in your area insist on SIA trained staff or just sufficient stewards?
As far as I’m aware if a licensed premises need security they have to be sia registered. It doesn’t mean you definatly need security, but chances are the police would insist it if capacity is an issue, also if was an open air event. If i can be bothered to type it out i’ll post the biiab handbook blurb its quite interesting. With regards to a risk assesment it is just a bit of paper but ‘cos im so lazy i pay a man to do it. ( my insurance company prefers this as well.)
a little more hard work in finding appropriate venues is needed by the organisers, but in norfolk anyway, it seems that alot of the ravers actually enjoy pissing people off and partying on land owned/etc without permission as its cool, or whatever. Im not sure unfortunately that the majority of organisers are actually prepared to comprimise, if they were surely they would have by now. We all know all the older rigs such as biotech would be prepared to do so, but can you see some of the “community” rigs holding hands with the police and landowners alike? i dunno im doubtful that a comprimise can actually be met, in reality by both parties, and the raves to still be raves as we know them. Hopefully im completely wrong about this.
this isn’t unique to Norfolk. Lots of people in SE and SW England think or thought that way – and either lost their rigs, or ended up in varying amounts of trouble with the law, or got clattered by riot-cops after trying to “fight the babylon”.
A third of all rigs in the Thames valley are still in the police property store due to a badly chosen venue in October 2004.
the remaining crews in those areas have had to become a lot smarter to survive.
I see the dilemma people have though round here. There aren’t enough valleys to hide stacks in (although there are hills is far from flat) and nearly all farmland is actve crop farmland…. not much in the way of “common” land, and little villages full of what appear to be middle aged and geriatric people everywhere.
The common area of Thetford has been rinsed; as have certain other areas – also I think what a lot of current crews don’t realise is that people were doing the same stuff in the same areas when they were in primary or middle school; so the locals are already weary of these events..
I think it will get to the stage where they have to either smarten up and/or compromise and/or do things in a way where they don’t piss off half the neighbourhood!
Norfolk is not a “safe haven” ; although it seems to have escaped the clampdowns that happened elsewhere in the UK.
eventually it will be locked down just like Suffolk and Essex if people aren’t careful.
Then again I can’t understand how two entire counties of this size can get rinsed like that…. and where the current ravers think they are going to when things get on top. Not everyone is gonna be up for 300 mile drives est every other weekend, hell, the cost of petrol must be horrendous!
I think parties can still happen though but they need to be a better organised crowd in better chosen venues and maybe finish by Sunday lunchtime (I’ve noticed that cops tend to bother you less if you do – perhaps Sunday roast is probably more compelling than a riot on an empty stomach…)
I’d rather go to an event with 500 sound people who are actually friendly than thousands who often also include wannabe rudes and numpties…
I’d rather go to an event with 500 sound people who are actually friendly than thousands who often also include wannabe rudes and numpties…
I know i love a sunday roast after a party! that or chinease!
Smaller parties are IMO generally more fun as they seem safer, and more of a group vibe going on, where you aer more likely to meet oter sorted people as more people seem to be prepared to chat.
I think part of the problem is that currently the norfolk rigs are trying to create something that has been done already, and didnt work then. im sure its not hard to call up a few farmers or pop round a few farms, and ask if they have any land spare for a hundred quid or so or a cut of the profits. i dont mind giving a Pound for the sound if i know its going to go to good use, rather than feeding the organisers their drugs for the next week or so! well ive got a couple of years to wait at least, so we’ll see what happens!
I’ve been to loads of raves, large and small and IMO thats definitely the case.
A “smaller” rave needn’t be a tiny one though! I went to one in a city a few months back and there were about 2000 really sound people there…
well people got away with it but only because cops weren’t as clued up. they are now.
There are some big problems to be overcome here – previously the farmers have consistently been warned away from this approach both by the cops and the NFU, and they would stil be angry as essentially they feel they are being bullied into accepting the raves.
That said their subsidies are less nowadays than they were and compettion from foreign countries means some areas of land may not be as profitable as it once was so its worth a try..
However Exodus even went as far as to get a community farm – then some people in the collective fucked everything up through their own egos and destroyed everything they had gained :rant: and made even ravers sceptical that this could ever happen again. They were so close to getting our lifestyles tolerated as well…
i cry many a tear for the exodus crew…..£1…£1
they certainly was the musical movement of jah people
AFAIK some of Exodus are still around, appear to be trying to learn from their mistakes, and doing smaller scale events (using TENS licenses?) in the Bedfordshire region.
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