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All events with music and dancing have had to be licensed in this country since the 1400s (this is actually why morris dancers wear the odd clothes and sometimes black up their faces – its not racism but they they sometimes had to hide their faces from the authorities!)
Every Council has a licensing policy which states what sort of events need licenses and its just about every kind of public entertainment, whether or not alcohol is sold (thats often subject to a separate license).
What I am pointing out is the cops can use the CJA to break up the event by force, and then use the licensing laws as well as CJA to prosecute rave organisers – and this is increasingly what they have been doing since 2004.
:laugh_at:
Do the CPS resort to prosecuting for PEL offences if they can’t get organisers under the CJA as a rule of thumb GL?
the way it works now is the cops have a CPS lawyer always available at one main police station whom they contact via phone or on airwave (thats why the radios have phone keypads on them now)
This lawyer gives them advice (they also often tend to be our age and fairly clued up on the scene)
In recent times it seems that CJA is used to justify the force used to disperse all of the ravers (its actually only an offence to disobey the order to leave) and also to confiscate the equipment
the PEL offence is used specifically to target the organisers of the event – by confiscating equipment / vehicles they know someone is going to claim it, so they then have individuals who can be held accountable for the illegal rave.
On a historical note it was way more brutal for morris dancers and other wandering musicians – locals would also sometimes attack them and smash up all their instruments (I think the sticks were also for self-defence) and the magistrates would even put some of them in a device called a noisemakers fife, which was a metal implement what crushes all their finger joints so they can’t play music any more..
90% of the time they are “normal” but the other 10% they tend to do stuff like take illegal drugs, play loud music, and ignore things like other peoples private property.
look sir i have respect for your efforts with this site, i dont agree with some of your views but that is your right to have them. thats what its all about. no one has the right to force thier idears about what is right or wrong in any given situation . we all have the freedom to decide what we belive in including youi.
i find the party people amazing and i have respect for them all. they dont shove their ideas or morals on to anyone else. they are without dout some of the most hardy and tough individuals i have ever met they endure conditions that many would not. they drive hundreds of miles to beable to express themselves. they bend over backward to aviod upsetting people. they are not a violent society. as for the use of illegall drugs..i thiink its up to them to decide what they take. its thier body after all.
i think its important to realize that these people are that backbone of english society. they are employed, pay thier taxes, and are responable law abiding citezens. this is thier land, thier country. what would we do if these people lose respect for a society that does not let them think for themselves or trusts them to do the right thing.without thier support this country would fragment into muticultral pieces and lose its soul.
Stomper I think you need to ditinguish GL’s actual opinions on the matter and what he’s saying the general public’s opinions are on the matter. There’s a major difference.
What I’ve noticed from GL’s posts is he often explains other people’s viewpoints rather than gives his own… more a way of explaining what we’re up against.
Unfortunately the whole world’s leaders and the UN (not just England) have agreed that some drugs should be illegal.
Also in our country we have a public funded healthcare system so others pay the price for those who are greedy with drugs. until people self regulate better those laws will never change.
Ravers weren’t violent but trouble amongst them has increased. At the last few parties I went to (and these were fluffier East Anglian parties) there were fights over girls and other pointless hassles (and this was without any violence from the police). There are a lot of angry young lads at raves these days and its only the K what stops some of them kicking off.
the harsh fact is ravers have been given 20 years to self-regulate, to think for themselves and do the right thing and haven’t done all that well – if they had the riot cops wouldn’t be bothering to shut down so many events – after all they let so many occur from 2003-2007 in many regions.
there are as you say many hard working, decent, otherwise law abiding people on this scene (I like to think I am one of them) but there are also youths what never have had a job in their life, don’t go college or uni or have careers like the clued up young people on here, and live by selling ketamine and other substances as well as other petty crime to fund their partying. Then they go and brag about this online and thats why this scene gets judged and locked down.
if things don’t get better soon even legal events might be under threat (there is an election soon in this country, with a good chance a more right-wing government will get in)
This lawyer gives them advice (they also often tend to be our age and fairly clued up on the scene)
In recent times it seems that CJA is used to justify the force used to disperse all of the ravers (its actually only an offence to disobey the order to leave) and also to confiscate the equipment
so what you are saying that the sec63 which was passed by parliment to be used in the freeparty scene is a totally useless document and that all the information contained withinit is rubbish and not worth the paper its printed on.
no, what I am saying is the CJA is used to make the bulk of ravers go away and the licensing laws are used against organisers.
The Section 63 is used as a warning to people to get out of the area, or the cops will use an escalating level of force to make them do so and can claim they are justified to do so because of the CJA law.
Then licensing laws are used to nick the people what done the rave.
There are of course other laws they use as well against both ravers and organisers , traffic laws, drugs posession and dealing, criminal damage, abstracting electricity etc…
Also in our country we have a public funded healthcare system so others pay the price for those who are greedy with drugs. until people self regulate better those laws will never change
can i ask you, do you like being told whats good or bad for you. dont you make your own decisions as to how you live your life.
your arguments dont hold water, acohol is legal yet it is one of the most damaging drugs in the world and causes massive social problems is highly addictive and damages the body. billions of pounds are spent every year in our town centers on policing drunken revelers and trying to stop fighting and damaging property etc. these far exceed the party scene yet its tolirated. why is that do you think?
I do make my own decisions but we have to make them within the laws (or at least not cause problems when we bend the rules). If I take drugs but go to work on Monday it doesn’t affect anyone else. However if I start lunching out work and nicking stuff to fund my habit it obviously does.
Society has every right to make decisions for people who can’t live their lives in a decent way – in some cases even denying that person their liberty via prison or the mental health ward. As soon as people do any sort of drugs/alcohol to the point a normally otherwise healthy person requires NHS treatment they are becoming a burden on society.
its all about money – at the moment the revenue from taxes pays for the damage (or would do so if not spent on foreign wars). The same applies for events like crasher, HTID, Tidy where there are actually a load of incidents and ambulances and even peopel dying but the ticket prices include the fees to the Council.
That argument “oh alcohol is tolerated” isn’t a very good one for progressive people. Alcohol isn’t tolerated as much as many think, it is grudgingly accepted in a capitalist world due to the money aspect I have previously mentioned.
The same anti-drugs teams also monitor binge drinking, thats why they are called a DAAT now – Drugs and Alcohol Action Team.
there are also plenty around in authoritiy who would like to see alcohol totally banned as well as other drugs. Already there are many no drinking zones in towns, most of the cost of alcohol in this country is tax, and a strong chance that all the late night opening legal venues may get restricted soon if people can’t behave themselves.
When it gets to the point the binge drinkers are causing more costs than tax revenue (and todays govt computers will eventually be able to easily work this out), there may well be more restrictions on alcohol too.
Your starting to sound like that song by The Streets Mate :laugh_at:
The Section 63 is used as a warning to people to get out of the area, or the cops will use an escalating level of force to make them do so and can claim they are justified to do so because of the CJA law.
Then licensing laws are used to nick the people what done the rave.
There are of course other laws they use as well against both ravers and organisers , traffic laws, drugs posession and dealing, criminal damage, abstracting electricity etc…
well if people break the law then they have to accept the concequences we must all abide by the rules othewise society would break down. the polices job is to uphold the law serve and protect its citezens. it also has to abide by the rules and not use its position in society to allow its own interpritation of the rules using lawers to see how much it can get away with.
i cant understand why it has become afraid of the ravers. if they want to stop a party then all they have to do is ask. if its not an unreasonable request and the party is causing problems in the area there in then i am sure the party would desperse without the use of force.
the uk tek was one of the mst inhospitable sites i have ever been to it was desperatly dirty with clouds of dirt blowing into our faces, the ground was uneven. the road up to it was long and horrific. it could never be discribed as a place of natural beauty. miles from anywhere the was not the slightest chance of anyone being disturbed so i ask myself why the police did not leave it alone and felt the need to use rforce.
do you think it may have been used by some off road 4 x 4s as a venue for them to use and maybee there was a complaint from them. i did see a couple of them around after the first visit?
well at last we can agree about something !
its been interesting to say the least, im going to bed now i need my beauty sleep ill take a peek in the morniing so dont try and pull any fast one while im away
the cops using lawyers is no different from anyone else using them to achieve their aims (in business it happens all the time).
as daft as it sounds it appears to be because of teenage kids using the kids social networks like bebo and putting up loads of “gang” and “fuck the police” type chat, threatening violence against anyone who disagrees with them, Because some of these kids chat about raves, the cops think there is a link between raves and youth gangs.
also the cops have asked nicely before in many areas and just got laughed at or worse pelted with stuff.
To make it worse, the term “rave” is used also for UK garage and grime events which have been associated with serious violence including the use of guns and knifes. Cops aren’t usually experts on dance music genres or youth subcultures so they put 2 and 2 together and make 200.
unless the 4x4s were there with the blessing of the landowner then they would also have been trespassers – the most they could do is make an anonymous phonecall. IMO the most likely trigger point for the Police reaction would have been the vandalism of the new wind turbines.
because of the image they have of ravers they may well have thought if the area wasn’t cleared quickly enough, the rest might get smashed. Bear in mind many coppers have visited warehouse buildings after raves have gone on in them (to help secure the place and assess the damage with the owners) and some buildings have got proper fucked over…
as daft as it sounds it appears to be because of teenage kids using the kids social networks like bebo and putting up loads of “gang” and “fuck the police” type chat, threatening violence against anyone who disagrees with them, Because some of these kids chat about raves, the cops think there is a link between raves and youth gangs.
also the cops have asked nicely before in many areas and just got laughed at or worse pelted with stuff.
are you really surgesting that a raver has vandlized one of those wind turbines? they must have have cutting torches or a really long ladder. those machines are made of toughend steel and are most definitly vandel proof.
apparantly there is a conflict with the land owers and planning about the building of the turbines and thats why they are not in use.
im surprised the police are linking other groups with the ravers as i have never seen other groups assosiate with the party scene. there is the exception with the travellers and with rude boys in the london area. that does not warrant the use of force. i treat people as i find them. if the authorites adopt a violent attidtude towards the party scene then it would create a gap in realations with ob and that would do no good what soev3er. the police i have come into contact with in the past are people doing there job and if you gave them respect then there would not be a problem. comunication between the sound system and the authorities is the key to the whole situation in a rave. the problem when there is no way of passing information over at a rave as no one will admit to being involved with it ties the hands of the police and gives them no control over any given situation. iif a problem occours about acces or a disturbed comunity at night then cannot do much about it accept to close the venue. after all the police have a duty to protect the public living in its area and that cannot be done without a link to the rig.
perhaps there could be an amesty against further action if some cmunications were set up at a rave?
well mr general lighting i am truly finished for now perhaps we can trade ideas again its been a long time since i have been able to express myself so thanks for reading the mail.
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