Forums › Drugs › Amphetamines › What is Speed Made From?
@DaftFader 387892 wrote:
I fear 1984 has broken PV :laugh_at:
We all knew this day would come. I have also lost some of my smilies 🙁
@process 387907 wrote:
oh yeah. no flies on you!
[IMG]http://www.jollyrogersink.com/aisites/Fly_Killer.JPG[/IMG]
heh, can’t sleep and like this forum, so mopping up some threads low on answers.
Speed in the UK (amphetamine) is different (but similar) to methamphetamine as seen in the US. Both typically start from ephedrine, a simple amine chemical which is a mild stimulant used in gyms all over the country. In the US, it is found in sudafed, and driving attention aids, and the meth synth is very easy, any muppet can do it, so they start with sudafed and mash up the pills to extract the small amount of pseudo-ephedrine which is in them, which is converted chemically to ephedrine. In the UK outr sudafed doesn’t contain it, but you can buy pure ephedrine (illegally) easier – the amphetamine synth is much more difficult, done by pros, who know how to buy ephedrine from India and Pakistaan, much easier than paying 40 people to buy innocuous amounts of sudafed from 40 pharmacies around a city.
You hear various stories about things like “drain cleaner”. Often these come from when a chemist needs a base (the opposite of an acid) – they use caustic soda, which is a “drain cleaner” but not in any bad way, it’s just a strong base. The exact same chemical is used in professional labs for the same reasons, they just don;t need to know a common usage for it. Concrete softener and swimming pool acid are others that you hear come up – they are actually just normal use chemicals (hydrochloric acid). Guys love sensationalism, papers pick up on it.
At the end of almost any pharmaceutical synth, you end up with a “free-basic form” of the drug, which is volatile, and not easily absorbed by the stomach anyway. A chemist then adds a salt, typically hydrochloride, but not always, sometimes sulfate is used (this is true of cocaine – you can ship cocaine sulfate to bypass certain checks, but cocaine hydrochoride is far more common, it’s easier to make) “free base” basically is street talk for “I don’t understand chemistry or drugs but will pay more money for dealer’s bullshit”. It will still have a similar effect, and be pure in that a dealer hasn’t cut it, but it is not a finished product and the part which wants to bind to the salt will bind to lots of things to screw it up (and you).
MDMA, like almost all of the same family (including 2C family) comes from a natural source. Saffrassas trees (the bark) contains saffrole oil – the precursor to MDMA. The trees are grown in places like Cambodia, they are being devastated and it is an utter tragedy, I’ve seen it, you don’t want to. It’s important in my opinion you know what you doing to this planet when taking drugs – MDMA is destroying forests, fucking communities and killing animals. Please consider this when arguing a case for it, other than that I amke no judgement. Brown Camphor oil can also be used. You basically purify the safrole, change it to isosafrole, oxidise it then change it to MDMA. It’s not as hard as people make out, but part of the synth is dangerous. The glassware can cost a bit and tends to get broken every time a lab has to move quickly.
Oh, the essential oils above are high in saffrole, a tree in middle america has root that is low in it, some guys out there harvest it and steam extract, it pushes the cost and labour up absurdly.
You can also make it from cloves but with no realistic yeild, but every ghetto-chemist does it from time to time just to prove they can, a finger up to tescos and the government.
What other questions were there..? (quick check back to the question :o) ) – LSD is not derived from anything natural, it is a full chemical synth, and a very very difficult one, the yield is low, the cost high, the steps involved so delicate even the colour of light in the room has to be changed. I have never ever seen a true synth for LSD on the web or in any book, not one that will actuallywork. If anyone is interested in it look up operation Julie (IIRC) for some very clever boys and a good chemist. There’s a great quote from a landlord of the local pubthat goes something like “we started getting suspicious when they’d offer generous gifts to locals in the pub, like free drinks, or gold rolex watches.” The synth used was genius, and never became public knowledge.
I think that’s everything and it’s late, I’m hitting the sack. I’m happy to answer questions so long as they are not obviously guys without knowledge trying to synth (very dangerous) or silly invasions of personal privacy.
Peace x
oh, yes, there is clean and dirty.
Chemical reactions have reagents (the chemicals which are going to change) and an extra chemical that facilitates it or speeds it up (the catalyst). These can be nasty. Good chemists removes them all, bad ones don’t. Depending on how many steps to the synth, or what synth is used, there is a spread of quality and safety at the users end.
Sometimes you will be more ill after taking drugs than other times because of this. Speed is a classic for this, you’ll notice a texture change, taste, smell and body response between batches.
just seen a few pics of some very cross looking Oriental dudes in military gear busting up a safrole racket in Cambodia. They look like the sort of people no one fucks with even if the taller guys are 5 foot 5. Turns out they are a mixture of Cambodian Environment Ministry with special forces from various SE Asian nations, feds from AU and CN and even the DEA also get involved providing intelligence..
The folk getting the safrole are the Asian equivalent of really dodgey pikeys who are also into stuff like poaching rare animals etc…
http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/investigation/13425/
“Earth provides enough to satisfy every man’s need, but not every man’s greed” – Mohandas K Ghandi..
It is f*cking horrible out there mate, as always organised crime has moved into where the profit is.
They are cracking down on safrole gangs but the gangs are arming up, just like we saw saw in south america with cocca back when coke was a ‘harmless bit of fun that never hurt anybody’.
Although there is light at the end of the raver tunnel, enzymic reaction may be able to provide an alternative, given 5-10 years is may be possible the whole process could be done using cultured organs designed for it. But we are not there yet. Not by a long way. Would be nice to see a clandestine lab that consisted of 40 liver like organs in a hydroponic-esque bath excreting pure mdma oil to be reduced.
@mushroom_john 390926 wrote:
It is f*cking horrible out there mate, as always organised crime has moved into where the profit is.
They are cracking down on safrole gangs but the gangs are arming up, just like we saw saw in south america with cocca back when coke was a ‘harmless bit of fun that never hurt anybody’.[/quote]
my extended family are from SE Asia so I have experience of the culture… when two groups disagree, both sides are prepared to fight until every fucker is dead and the whole area is barren scorched wasteland…. the plots of martial arts movies aren’t too far from the truth! the only reason it doesn’t normally get this far is because one group tends to be way stronger than the other and gain a decisive victory.
As well as the more esoteric science, there are also newer chemicals… although cathinones had their drawbacks in reality they weren’t that much worse than MDMA health wise, and 6-APB seems interesting – even if the “legal” highs scene doesn’t last much longer I reckon this new stuff will turn up in pills…
I have to be very careful here, but chinese production of these things might not last. And India/Stan laws and views of the grey market traders has changed in the last couple of months. I watched a product simply disappear for a year once, following a single extradition. It was political, it’s back now, but the authorities there do have control of their industry and trade. I don’t know much about RCs and the synths, and I honestly wouldn’t know where to buy mdma from these days. I’m hitting the sack tonight but will check out the chemistry of what you mentioned and how it’s made.
I am always amazed at how well the UK has done at keeping meth away. I’d expect to see that pitching up in the pill reports, or PCP. BZP was around for a while, unremarkable really, an obvious choice, but luckily less so now. Guess time will tell. There’s always willing Guinea pigs willing to try anything it seems, something else that amazes me.
@mushroom_john 390930 wrote:
I have to be very careful here, but chinese production of these things might not last.
its no dark secret… a logical (if unwanted by us) consequence of globalisation and a shrinking world, I’ve been monitoring the sociopolitical aspects for some years.
Rich Asian families (across the entire continent) have always sent their kids to study in Europe, particularly the UK, even if they do not want to migrate here permanently. Despite a few tensions, British universities are by and large friendly multicultural places with a strong social culture. So of course by the 1990s young middle class Asians had become involved in the rave scene and exported it back to their native countries, along with the drugs and the knowledge to make them :wink:(many were studying science degrees).
This extra demand has caused the same social problems as in Europe, and even the hardline authoritarian govts have had to increase the amount before which people get death penalty, or they will end up hanging too many decent young people with potential!
This forum is as you may have noticed very international and we occasionally get posters from Malaysia, Singapore and other Asian nations. they have to be careful what they post as their internet is monitored, but all have said that there is a strong drugs scene in all these nations despite the posession penalties still being compulsory hospital rehab and strokes of the rattan cane!
However my cousins who live in Malaysia have said pills are easy to get in some areas and now you have to be caught with loads to risk actually being hanged. Much the same has of course happened in South China with the new affluence of their youth.
Add to this the fact that a lack of scientists in the West means that Eastern boffins can make as much money from legit work as from clandestine stuff, the politicians there can make use of their control over the drugs market in negotiations with the west – think of a Siamese cat who is a otherwise a cute and loving kitty but raids the food cupboard or knocks random things over if you don’t give him enough food and attention 😉
also feds out there don’t fuck around with human rights/right to fair trial type things… metpol have been accused by groups like Amnesty of working with them to ensure cockney criminals get busted on foreign lands and with foreign laws when on the holiday paid for by their crime, with obvious bad consequences.. (actually I’ve been told by a metpol Inspector they do this)
hehe, ironically enough I get hit with a rattan voluntarily daily, but that’s another thread entirely, although from near your part of the world….
I know nothing about the street trade overseas, but chinese production is close to me.
What gets put up on the forums here about “labs” making RCs isn’t true. I don’t want to say too much because I’m not here to upset anyone, and have no doubt at all that guys on here work for the resellers who pitch the stories. There are banks and banks of chemical production plants there. It is truly amazing to see them at work, nothing like a british outfit. Whatever is required, they have these wire racks that hold clamps for glassware, they have huge reference databases of stages of a reaction, and trained chemists who say which reactions they need (literally a trail of numbers) and using the rack 8-10 people go to work fast setting up each stage. However, it is not to any of the pharmacopia grade standards in any way (although they do have places who can).
The chemicals that go in to the front end are usually failures from quality control of “real” projects. As USP isn’t followed, there is no quality check and final audit, although they do a better job mostly than clandestine domestic operations, except by very elitist guys. But the government can and will shut it down on the spot. It happened some time ago with a very special and expensive product, not related to drugs as such, but politics at the time was that this simply didn’t exist. And overnight, it really didn’t. The black marketeers disappeared, the production houses (9 at the time, each with millions invested into them for bleeding edge bio-tech) stopped that day. Stock was destroyed. One man was extradited, although now is ok. It wasn’t a case of some kid on a forum saying “you just don;t know a good enough dealer…” the trade was halted almost instantly and without (much) warning. Like you say, the draconian laws and enforcement is real, and works.
@mushroom_john 390957 wrote:
What gets put up on the forums here about “labs” making RCs isn’t true. I don’t want to say too much because I’m not here to upset anyone, and have no doubt at all that guys on here work for the resellers who pitch the stories.
please do not ever feel frightened to mention bad news. The freedom to discuss bad news is one of the fundamental parts of freedom of speech. PV is an international site which is completely independent of all resellers of research chemicals, in ’09 we banned a fair few people who had simply joined up here to sell mephedrone despite its legality as they were basically having an online turf war.
The emphasis here is on honest discussion and harm reduction.
Ultimately we’d all like to see international drugs prohibition ended but that simply will not happen until/if drug users become more responsible. it may well not happen in any of our lifetimes, although I have a suspicion that use of some stimulants by workers might be tolerated (as it was in the last war) as times get harder and long hours need to be worked in factories, fields and offices..
in the meantime if it means some people are upset by the truth so be it. I’ve had real-life friends walk away from this site because “there’s too much bad news”, but it all needs to be told.
try lsd and speed together, not much speed needed on half a trip. its like ultra-speeding. 20 days solid, and no comedown (of course i ate and slept) also when lsd leaves body, no addictive symptoms from either 🙂
How the fuck did you even find a thread this old to post that in?
probably searching from google. From personal experience the combination does work; although maybe not for the duration the previous poster claims.
you can also equally end up doing particularly inadvisable things like picking up a soldering iron by the hot end during work on Monday. That hurts no matter how many drugs you have taken, and it hurts for several days afterwards (I still somehow managed to complete the task I was supposed to have been doing which was modifying a surface mount PCB to mask an error in manufacture).
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Forums › Drugs › Amphetamines › What is Speed Made From?
