Forums › Rave › Party Reports › Who’s Welsh?
me – and I am fiercly proud to be Welsh and extremely proud of my national heritage!
While I think nationalism can more often than not be a bad thing (as it gets peverted to justify all sorts of exclusions and atrocities) – having pride in where you’re from and working to make it a better place is a good thing.
I love Wales and my biggest regret is that my career has taken me away from home. I love the south and west wales coastline (and plan to get married there next year – I wanted to get married on my special ledge at Llantwit beach but that proved impossible – gutted!)
Though I’m originally from a sad and depressing industrial area (Port talbot – often described as the arsehole of the universe by those who care to visit) – you’ve never got to go far to experience true natural beauty – from mountains and forests to spectacular coastline.
If you ask me – the Welsh are extremely lucky and should embrace (the ups and downs) of their national heritage and work hard to preserve the natural beauty wales has to offer.
Where are you from zerasta?
I live quite near port talbot and I actually find it oddlly beatiful at night in its own industrial grimey way, makes a good b&w photo too.
I consider myself english but i’ve lived in wales alot of my life and agree its a country of great natural beaty, that comment was purely meant to be provocactive as I know how proud and patriotic the welsh are LOL!
I’m looking for some welsh people to lend a hand over the summer or just anybody really with some good ideas.
While I think nationalism can more often than not be a bad thing (as it gets peverted to justify all sorts of exclusions and atrocities) – having pride in where you’re from and working to make it a better place is a good thing.
this is something I totally agree with. Although my parents are from Malaysia I was born in London and am proud to consider myself a British Asian – this in itself is a unique culture which has arisen through the UK being somewhat more receptive (even if grudgingly and only due to market pressures) towards immigration than some other European nations.
I think a lot of problems in British society today are because no-one is taught their history properly irrespective of their original ancestry.
White English working class kids in places such as London do not learn about stuff like the London docks, the power stations and coal routes and their ancestors’ contribution to the building of the modern capital (perhaps because those in power don’t want to admit that slavery wasn’t just imposed on black people?)
we have to accept though that the empire building of previous years had both positive and negative aspects; it created a lot of breakthroughs with regard to science, engineering trade and technology but at the same time was responsible for serious human rights abuses as some peoples imposed their views and cultures on others; this is reflected in the instability of the World even today.
It wouldn’t be cheap or easy to teach British school kids in your average multicultural school the truth about the Empire (including the abuse of people in the Celtic areas of the UK such as the denial of their cultures and languages)
It would not be the cost of books but because when lads of 10-15 learn about the atrocities their forefathers committed and the blood shed in resistance movements as a reprisal, they will initially be inspired to avenge past wrongs –
it could lead to more blood spilled on school grounds, unless teachers, parents, locals and even the Police work together!
I think though when people have a strong secure sense of identity they would not feel threatened by outsiders – this is perhaps one reason why raves have been tolerated more in some parts of Wales and Scotland; although (just as with immigrant communities in England) there needs to be give and take and mutual understanding.
Zerasta is right about Port Talbot, it has some spectacular photo opportunities. It’s a town with many variables.
So, what exactly did you want a hand with over the summer ? I’m curious
White English working class kids in places such as London do not learn about stuff like the London docks, the power stations and coal routes and their ancestors’ contribution to the building of the modern capital (perhaps because those in power don’t want to admit that slavery wasn’t just imposed on black people?)
we have to accept though that the empire building of previous years had both positive and negative aspects; it created a lot of breakthroughs with regard to science, engineering trade and technology but at the same time was responsible for serious human rights abuses as some peoples imposed their views and cultures on others; this is reflected in the instability of the World even today.
It wouldn’t be cheap or easy to teach British school kids in your average multicultural school the truth about the Empire (including the abuse of people in the Celtic areas of the UK such as the denial of their cultures and languages)
I agree with what you’re saying. Empire is a concept that children in this country need to be made much more aware of – learning more about its often bloody and brutal history (starting with the British empire) helps undermine that uniformed racial slur “get back to your own country” –
as Empire spread, so too did the discreteness of nation states and national cultures – what exactly is British culture today?
Growing up in South Wales I learned in school about the Merthyr riots, the Rebecca riots, the tithe war – instances of cultural and religious imperialsm that inevitably affected the poorest and most deprived in society. If it makes you realise anything, its that imposing your will and culture upon people is always detrimental.
Learning about slavery in schools should be mandatory (Britains role in the triangular trade for starters), as well as the real consequences of imperialism and colonialism (India, Africa – the list goes on) and the present day struggle of post-colonial nations (some would include the celtic nations here).
IMO – I think this would make a more tolerant society. I’m probably just an idealist, but I think knowledge is the key to a better and more informed society and the youngest minds are always the richest and most open.
sorry, I realise I’ve strayed from the thread somewhat – but I had to add my five penneth!
I agree kids should be taught about such things in school, they probaly dont because its deemed politcly incorrect, or teachers are afraid they will be accused of ensighting racial hatred.
Another problem is like gl said it could cause more harm than good, if the kids don’t fully understand it will just make them angry or bitter. Maybe if we had a better education system it would work. Personally I found in school I was often better educated on such things than my teachers where, even my history teacher. Would be better if parents would all educate their children in such things, and instead of taking the kids to barbados for a holiday take them to the slums of india and show them how some kids their age live.
an dont worry bout invading the thread i luv a good rant :rant: :bigsmile:
I currently live in wales at uni, in glamorgan. Its a nice country with very friendly people but there is one thing that I have never understood. Why is Wales so fiercly patriotic and England clearly isnt? In England, mainly tourist resorts, you get the shops with their tacky ‘i love england’ shirts/mugs etc, but in wales they are everywhere and whatsmore every welsh person seems to own them all!
Im not trying to say this as a criticism, I just dont understand why theres such a difference between peoples attitudes, and so far I have asked a lot of welsh people and havnt had a decent answer yet.
Wales is a wonderful place to be
hello jjuice, is that you? if so Err says hi :horay:
Another problem is like gl said it could cause more harm than good, if the kids don’t fully understand it will just make them angry or bitter. Maybe if we had a better education system it would work.
exactly. before we can teach kids the full truth we need to also teach them that conflicts are not the best way of sorting out differences; and the teaching materials themselves must be subject to scrutiny from a mixed and impartial panel of academics (which would probably be hard to find!)
For young people who do want to learn there history; there is plenty available on the Internet; unfortunately much of it is tainted by the people who compile the info subtly introducing their own biases (as with history books of old, many of which fully supported Britain’s empire-building at any costs)
There is however no way that some aspects of history could be made “politically correct” – they will create anger in the minds of youths who feel their ancestors were oppressed.
Schools will need experienced teachers and even counsellors/youth workers to stop the angrier youths taking the war back to the streets to avenge past wrongs.
In fact this already happens on the streets of London when kids get sucked into joining the militant groups (there are white, black and muslim groups of this nature, mostly linked with gangs). the gang members who have been to uni or college interpret history in their own ways – so young black men are stabbed at bus stops, white lads are robbed and beaten up, even attacks on OAPs are justified as “its avenging what they did to other countries to build there empire”.
TBH I reckon this is the main reason why our education system is running scared from teaching the truth – it may hurt too much if they did…
That is true in some cases, but in most cases kids simply dont care about their history. “so what, it happened 200 years ago”. I personally think its equally as important to teach kids about whats going on at the moment and politics etc as it is to teach their history as most have no grasp of whats going on outside their town let alone their country. Apathy is being encouriged more and more in the schools, allbeit subtly, and that is one of the worst things that could happen to this country. If everyone just sits back and assumes that who ever is in power must be doing the right thing then we are all screwed!
Sorry, dunno how i managed to change the topic so much there!!
There are many different permutations of Empire – and colonisation, imperialism, nation conquest, hasn’t been confined to just European nations…
This is why I believe that it wouldn’t be a bad thing to properly inform our children of a global history of imperialism. While kids who are interested enough will seek this history on their own – those who don;t have the opportunity and those who express apathy are even more important to reach.
The only way to counter apathy, IMO, is to teach kinds at a young enough age how interconnected today’s nation states really are. Educating children about empire is not simply about emphasising cultural difference, but locating cultural connections. We can’t right the wrongs of the past but we can demostrate ways to move forward. Our global history is what makes the world the way it is today – and the past will always have a bearing on the present.
I may have learned about Welsh opression in school (our language, religion, culture) but it certainly didn’t make me want to go out and bash the English – maybe AFX that’s why you’ve experienced a certain amount of nationalism, and nation pride, in Wales – I guess its about learning to be proud of your culture once again and keeping old cultural traditions alive – like the welsh dolls you see everywhere, tscky looking as they are (there’s something to be said about the fact that though my great grandparents were brought up speaking Welsh – my parents generation, at least where I’m from, hardly speak any. we have consistently been told, until recently, that Welsh is a dying language). also, I think the English display as much nation pride as the welsh – you only have to look at the flag waving that goes on when the English football team is playing!!
this is a complex issue and its good to see that people are expressing diverse opinions. entering into dialgoue can only be a good thing….
Well, i know what you mean about the flag waving during football, but that only counters the welsh rugby love. Englands only patriotic when there is something to be patriotic about, whereas wales is always very patriotic. I dont think it is a bad thing, quite the contrary.
I think in schools if history is to be taught in the way your trying to make it sound, it needs to be obvious to the kids why it is relevant. My memories of history was a VERY boring old teacher who moaned on about some war or other, and that was about it. In primary school, as far as i remember, history meant knowing all of henry the 8ths wife’s names. This just turns anyone off history as it is being taught very boringly and seems to have no relevance to modern times. It would be good if they could coincide history with some sort of lesson looking at whats happening around the world right now and draw together the similarites. For example, you could look at where America was 200 years ago compared to where it is today, and the same for Britain in that case. Is america going to be the next “british empire”? Those sort of things in class.
However, I have nothing to do with the people who do the curriculum so im not really going to get anywhere with my ideas! If i was i would make more changes. For example (sorry to change the topic) I would make every lesson entirely marked on exams, and the exams would be random so kids had no pre-warning. Coursework is a crap way of marking because I remember being in school and all your friends do it together, you get your parents to help you etc, look on the internet…basically you dont proove what you know! Same goes for exams where you have a month to prepare, anyone can revise for weeks and pass an exam. The only way you can really know how well someone knows their stuff is by constant examination.
Yeh…sorry for digressing so much.
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Forums › Rave › Party Reports › Who’s Welsh?
