Forums › Life › Spirituality, Morality & Religion › Your views on immigration…
Immigration can be controlled and should be; though to what extent I have no idea that’s the governments job (they tend to have more data and be a tad brighter/better educated than me). Asylum should the limitless though the key factor is the definition.
Right on no-hope
Fact is we already have shortages in everything, housing, jobs, infrastructure & support services, the UK hasnt been self sufficient in food or Oil since WW2, now our natural gas is running out and old Nuke Power Stations are nearing decom dates with no new ones built to replace them we even have to import electricity………………….
Regardless of political views or sympathy for refuges etc, Britain is small island with rapidly diminishing resources, and we are FULL !!!
Until/unless we need people to fill jobs the doors need to be closed, heartless yes, practical yes.
@Mezz 508884 wrote:
Fact is we already have shortages in everything, housing, jobs, infrastructure & support services, the UK hasnt been self sufficient in food or Oil since WW2, now our natural gas is running out and old Nuke Power Stations are nearing decom dates with no new ones built to replace them we even have to import electricity………………….
Regardless of political views or sympathy for refuges etc, Britain is small island with rapidly diminishing resources, and we are FULL !!!
Until/unless we need people to fill jobs the doors need to be closed, heartless yes, practical yes.
We do though. Doctors/healthcare workers definitely spring to mind, and that’s an area where if you have a degree you have pretty much 0% chance of unemployment (how many out-of-work doctors/nurses do you know?) I don’t think any immigrant “takes” someone’s job, that’s a rather racist view. It’s not like there are swathes of poles/jamaicans/whatever lying in wait to ambush honest, hardworking Britons and forcibly remove their employment from them. It’s not the immigrants’ fault that the country is importing electricity, that’s politicians. The whole immigration debate is mostly fear from my point of view. Especially where EU citizens are involved, they have just as much right to live and work here as you do, from a legal perspective anyway.
I agree there is a lot of fear (plus migration patterns are used by more affluent people/organisations to get away from higher taxes in European nations) but unfortunately I feel we had the chance to have a “world without borders” in the 90s/2000s during times of more abundant energy/resources (when reducing inequality of wealth distribution was more possible) and everyone pissed it up the wall during the good times.
So instead we will get revolutions and civil war / international war in some parts of the world, which means richer countries will get refugees and immigrants anyway, and their people will deal with them as they feel necessary.
I can stlll remember when a trip to Europe meant seeing the red, black and white ZOLL / DOUANE sign at border points, and that my generation was encouraged to learn languages as much so we could “keep an eye/ear on what Johnny Foreigner is up to” as much as interact with them on an equal level (ironically one organisation which strongly encourages skilled immigrants is GCHQ 😉 )
earlier this year the Northern European NATO countries carried out an exercise to completely lock off the North Sea to anyone they do not want to be there. They planted sea mines (practice ones!) and warned away all fishing vessels from many areas.
@General Lighting 508906 wrote:
I agree there is a lot of fear (plus migration patterns are used by more affluent people/organisations to get away from higher taxes in European nations) but unfortunately I feel we had the chance to have a “world without borders” in the 90s/2000s during times of more abundant energy/resources (when reducing inequality of wealth distribution was more possible) and everyone pissed it up the wall during the good times.
So instead we will get revolutions and civil war / international war in some parts of the world, which means richer countries will get refugees and immigrants anyway, and their people will deal with them as they feel necessary.
I can stlll remember when a trip to Europe meant seeing the red, black and white ZOLL / DOUANE sign at border points, and that my generation was encouraged to learn languages as much so we could “keep an eye/ear on what Johnny Foreigner is up to” as much as interact with them on an equal level (ironically one organisation which strongly encourages skilled immigrants is GCHQ 😉 )
earlier this year the Northern European NATO countries carried out an exercise to completely lock off the North Sea to anyone they do not want to be there. They planted sea mines (practice ones!) and warned away all fishing vessels from many areas.
Yeah I think a world completely without borders would descend into chaos, but on the other hand I think “the game is rigged.” Even if I were born into the poorest english family in the UK, I would have it so much better than someone born in Somalia simply due to dumb luck and not any skill on my part.
@barrettone 508907 wrote:
Yeah I think a world completely without borders would descend into chaos, but on the other hand I think “the game is rigged.” Even if I were born into the poorest english family in the UK, I would have it so much better than someone born in Somalia simply due to dumb luck and not any skill on my part.
this is true, though since the thread started 6 years ago there have been a number of elections in EU countries and folk got “what they wished”.
It is now much more difficult for non-EU immigrants to get here (I work in an industry where there are many and the effort involved is not trivial) – even countries which have retained a centre-left govt (like most Northern European countries other than the UK) have become less tolerant to immigration, even if its done in subtle ways like quietly removing translation services, people are getting harder hearted as austerity bites.
And yet people “play the game” across the EU, folk from these rich Northern European countries use the Southern ones as a playground for hedonism (Ibiza etc) yet despise the natives there for being “lazy/over dominated by religion” etc…
Also many well off Europeans migrate to the UK or USA to avoid paying their fair share of taxes (after they have gained from the free education/welfare/public services) and take a lot of capital with them, and often whinge about the “nanny states” of Europe. And what is happening in Southern Europe is even more fucking horrendous, open civil warfare against immigrants with the Police colluding (like in GR) and getting worse as they are geographically closer to poorer Middle Eastern and African countries.
Much of the current tension is within EU nations as much as caused by external influences. Hence the military exercise earlier in the year. its not exactly world war 3 but even though I grew up during the Cold War and have always been curious about stuff like this (it wasn’t non-PC for young boys to be interested in war!) stuff like that seemed more like what you’d see on old black and white movies and “Europe was at peace”.
@barrettone 508899 wrote:
We do though. Doctors/healthcare workers definitely spring to mind, and that’s an area where if you have a degree you have pretty much 0% chance of unemployment (how many out-of-work doctors/nurses do you know?) I don’t think any immigrant “takes” someone’s job, that’s a rather racist view. It’s not like there are swathes of poles/jamaicans/whatever lying in wait to ambush honest, hardworking Britons and forcibly remove their employment from them. It’s not the immigrants’ fault that the country is importing electricity, that’s politicians. The whole immigration debate is mostly fear from my point of view. Especially where EU citizens are involved, they have just as much right to live and work here as you do, from a legal perspective anyway.
Nothing racist about it, I dont care what nationality people are, dont care if they’re black, white or orange with purple spots, the love of my life was of SriLankan origin ( Her parents migrated here in the 70s and she was born in the same hospital as me ). I dont understand why people assume anything to do with immigration is race related, Brits emigrate too, in huge numbers at some points in history, Britain is multi-ethnic, a melting pot of national origins and people who come here do so from a huge variety of places.
That dont alter the fact that the UK has huge unemployment, most immigrants are not in the professions we need ( though a small % like doctors are ), and they generally have a much stronger work ethic & willing to work longer hours, unsociable hours, for less money. This is not the immigrants problem, I think their willingness to work hard & support themselves is very commendable………. it’s a British problem because so much of our own potential work force are complacent & lazy, expect more money, want more flexible hours and less willing to do unsociable hours or take on long term education to get the best jobs.
We are essentially importing good workers from abroad and letting many lazy Brits become reliant on benefits by not educating properly and not instilling the proper values in our young. I know several people ( British people ) who get more money on benefits than I get working just because they had kids, they get free houses and are essentially paid to breed.
The UK has unsustainable population growth, rising unemployment, Rising housing & resource shortages, and it takes a lot more than just stopping immigration to fix that, but phasing out immigration in place of changes to education is a big ( if unpopular ) part of the changes needed to address this imbalance.
@barrettone 508899 wrote:
We do though. Doctors/healthcare workers definitely spring to mind, and that’s an area where if you have a degree you have pretty much 0% chance of unemployment (how many out-of-work doctors/nurses do you know?) I don’t think any immigrant “takes” someone’s job, that’s a rather racist view. It’s not like there are swathes of poles/jamaicans/whatever lying in wait to ambush honest, hardworking Britons and forcibly remove their employment from them. It’s not the immigrants’ fault that the country is importing electricity, that’s politicians. The whole immigration debate is mostly fear from my point of view. Especially where EU citizens are involved, they have just as much right to live and work here as you do, from a legal perspective anyway.
Nothing racist about it, I dont care what nationality people are, dont care if they’re black, white or orange with purple spots, the love of my life was of SriLankan origin ( Her parents migrated here in the 70s and she was born in the same hospital as me ). I dont understand why people assume anything to do with immigration is race related, Brits emigrate too, in huge numbers at some points in history, Britain is multi-ethnic, a melting pot of national origins and people who come here do so from a huge variety of places.
That dont alter the fact that the UK has huge unemployment, most immigrants are not in the professions we need ( though a small % like doctors are ), and they generally have a much stronger work ethic & willing to work longer hours, unsociable hours, for less money. This is not the immigrants problem, I think their willingness to work hard & support themselves is very commendable………. it’s a British problem because so much of our own potential work force are complacent & lazy, expect more money, want more flexible hours and less willing to do unsociable hours or take on long term education to get the best jobs.
We are essentially importing good workers from abroad and letting many lazy Brits become reliant on benefits by not educating properly and not instilling the proper values in our young. I know several people ( British people ) who get more money on benefits than I get working just because they had kids, they get free houses and are essentially paid to breed.
The UK has unsustainable population growth, rising unemployment, Rising housing & resource shortages, and it takes a lot more than just stopping immigration to fix that, but phasing out immigration in place of changes to education is a big ( if unpopular ) part of the changes needed to address this imbalance.
I didn’t mean to imply that you’re a racist, sorry for that misunderstanding!
But anyway, if that’s the case, then we need to instill better values in the British. If someone is going to do my job better, that’s my fault for not being able to perform my job to the standard that is wanted. Brits have it easy compared to a lot of people. We get better education, have relatively inexpensive cost-benefit education, and almost everyone has an internet connection. It’s not the immigrants’ fault if people choose to be benefits scroungers. In that case the government should do something against the “societal dead weights” than against the immigrants.
@barrettone 508926 wrote:
I didn’t mean to imply that you’re a racist, sorry for that misunderstanding!
But anyway, if that’s the case, then we need to instill better values in the British. If someone is going to do my job better, that’s my fault for not being able to perform my job to the standard that is wanted. Brits have it easy compared to a lot of people. We get better education, have relatively inexpensive cost-benefit education, and almost everyone has an internet connection. It’s not the immigrants’ fault if people choose to be benefits scroungers. In that case the government should do something against the “societal dead weights” than against the immigrants.
Like I said mate, it’s a combination of things, yes we need to instill better values at home from a early age, but we also need to phase out immigration, not to punish immigrants or because we disapprove or have anything against them, just because we cant maintain the current level of population growth, there are simply to many people and not enough jobs, homes & resources to support them all.
Unfortunately this wont happen because for all it’s many benefits and even though it’s by far a form of government preferable to all others, democracy still has many flaws, one of the biggest being it’s shortsightedness, politicians put party interests and getting re-elected ahead of long term plans & stability, and telling people they have to work harder and be realistic about our goals wont get any votes lol
@Mezz 508933 wrote:
Like I said mate, it’s a combination of things, yes we need to instill better values at home from a early age, but we also need to phase out immigration, not to punish immigrants or because we disapprove or have anything against them, just because we cant maintain the current level of population growth, there are simply to many people and not enough jobs, homes & resources to support them all.
Unfortunately this wont happen because for all it’s many benefits and even though it’s by far a form of government preferable to all others, democracy still has many flaws, one of the biggest being it’s shortsightedness, politicians put party interests and getting re-elected ahead of long term plans & stability, and telling people they have to work harder and be realistic about our goals wont get any votes lol
I agree with you there on government. It seems like the institution cares more about maintaining its power over others than actually making life better.
Btw…who is everyone voting for? Now i have a permenent home Il be voting next time round, i think its really important.
Isn’t the election in 3 years? I can’t make that decision so early.
Three ?!
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Forums › Life › Spirituality, Morality & Religion › Your views on immigration…
